White Lotus Kenpo
- Thread starter The Kai
- Start date
Rick Wade
Master Black Belt
This is what I found from http://www.ckfa.net/wkenpo.shtml :
White Lotus Kenpo
and
History of the White Dragon Warrior Society
Great grandmaster - Daniel Kane Pai's grandfather, Po Fong, left his home near a southern Shaolin Temple outside of Singapore and traveled to Hawaii in 1924 with the dream of being able to give his family a better life by using his vast martial arts knowledge. Po Fong later adopted a Hawaiian name, Po Pai. Kane Pai, the son of Po Pai, was one of six children and had a son, Daniel Kane Pai, born in Kamuela, Hawaii. Grandmaster - Po Pai taught his grandson the family martial art style which contained mainly elements of the crane and dragon movements as well as other animal styles which were later contained within a larger martial arts system called Pai Lum Tao. His grandmother was a master of the white crane system and his father was a Judo expert. During this time of training, it is said that Po Pai sent his grandson to the White Lotus Monastery, Byakurenji, on the northern coast of Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands, to study Kobayashi-ryu karate-do, White Lotus Kenpo and he received his black belt.
After the end of World War II, Daniel Pai went to work on the Parker Ranch on the "Big Island " herding cattle. During this time, Daniel Pai and Ed Parker, who would become a famous kenpo master, worked and trained together. Pai studied the art of Judo/Jujitsu and massage with Professor Osakis and Richard Takamora. He was also involved with the Hawaiian Kenpo Association.
In 1951, Daniel Pai joined the U. S. Army and was stationed on the Mainland. He opened his first school in the back of his Sunset Boulevard home just before leaving to fight in the Korean War. He reenlisted in 1953, and spoke of being in Vietnam in 1954. He retired from active duty in December 1955 and in May 1962 he was given an honorable discharge after completing his military obligation. During his service to his country, Daniel Pai was awarded 4 Bronze Stars, Korean Service Medal, U. N. Service Medal, and the National Defense Medal.
Dr. Daniel Pai graduated from the Chicago Medical College, Calcutta India on June 29, 1960 with a degree in Homeopathic Medicine and during the 1960's he worked at 20th Century Fox as a stuntman.
Throughout the mid-sixties and early seventies, he opened schools throughout the United States, with instructors in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Pennsylvania,Tennessee, Connecticut, Colorado, California, Canada and Hawaii. During this time he was operating a school in Daytona Beach and assisting with the operations across the country. This era peaked with fifty plus Pai Lum and Fire Dragon schools operating in North America. Over the next two decades some of these students, who trained mostly in kenpo, stayed close to Great Grandmaster - Pai as he trained new students in Kung Fu and Tai Chi disciplines. Great Grandmaster Pai's martial arts system became known as the White Dragon.
In 1966 after spending 20 years as a merchant marine, Master-Jim McIntosh brought a vast knowledge of the Asian martial arts to the United States through a martial art system known as Gong Yuen Chuan Fa, the way of the hard and soft fist. Training with Master McIntosh was very rough and physically and mentally demanding. Sifu-Glenn Wilson was one of only three Sifus produced by Master McIntosh.
In 1974 the Gong Yuen Chuan Fa Federation was established to govern the ranking and curriculum taught. Sifu-Glenn was assigned the duties as director and has served faithfully ever since. The virtues of Gong Yuen Chuan Fa's concrete foundation includes four systems; Shorinji Kempo, Lo Han - Buddhist Monk Boxing, Plum Flower system and the Five Animal School. This combination would prove to be an unbeatable combination of fighting, empty hand forms and weaponry.
Since Master-McIntosh had retired, Sifu Glenn Wilson followed his teachers advice and sought out to add to his curriculum and in the early seventies was sent to meet the world renowned Kung fu Grandmaster from Hawaii, Daniel Kane Pai. Their friendship was instantaneous and Grandmaster-Pai was very impressed with the young Sifu's level of skills and with the awesome style he taught.
In 1974 Grandmaster-Pai accepted Sifu-Glenn C. Wilson as a student with Sifu-Glenn maintaining the rank he held in Gong Yuen Chuan Fa and with the Kou Shu Organization in Taiwan, that was 3rd higher level. The traditional blend of two great systems - White Dragon & The Way of the Hard & Soft fist began.
Sifu-Glenn began a life long endeavor to study the disciplines of Bok Leen Pai, Pai Lum Tao and Yang Tai Chi. At the request of his teacher, Grandmaster Daniel Kane Pai, Sifu-Glenn would begin to teach the traditional Lohan and Plum Flower forms to the rest of the Pai Lum Tao Families.
In 1979 Sifu-Glenn Wilson was elevated to the prestigious Rank of Si Gung by Grandmaster Pai and the Kou Shu Federation of Taiwan.
In 1992, Great Grandmaster-Daniel Kane Pai was in the process of organizing all his Pai Lum Tao schools with several associated systems under an umbrella organization called the World White Dragon Kung Fu Society. Upon the request of the Great Grandmaster, Si Gung-Glenn Wilson was given the honor to oversee the establishing of this organization to protect and to preserve the curriculum.
In 1993, while in the Dominican Republic, Great Grandmaster-Daniel Kane Pai passed from this life and was laid to rest with full military honors, at the Hawaiian National Cemetery. A legacy of knowledge and wisdom was left with many devoted practitioners of Pai Lum Tao across several decades.
Under the direction of Si Gung-Glenn C. Wilson, a Board of Directors was appointed during 1994 to protect and preserve the curriculum of the Pai Lum Tao family, as Si Gung-Glenn had promised his teacher. During 1994 and 1995 there were a few individuals who would not conform to the by-laws of the World White Dragon Kung Fu Society and there was a division in the organization.
Keeping his promise to his teacher, Si Gung-Glenn Wilson established the umbrella organization, The White Dragon Warrior Society, Inc. This non-profit organization is devoted to protecting and preserving the dream of Great Grandmaster Daniel Kane Pal. Si Tai Gung-Glenn has served this organization with unselfish devotion to insure that each school will train hard to understand the origins and curriculum of Gong Yuen Chuan Fa - Pai Lum Tao and remain united as one family.
For More information on our Pai Lum Tao Kung Fu history see our W.D.W.S., Inc. home page: www.pailum.org
White Lotus Kenpo
and
History of the White Dragon Warrior Society
Great grandmaster - Daniel Kane Pai's grandfather, Po Fong, left his home near a southern Shaolin Temple outside of Singapore and traveled to Hawaii in 1924 with the dream of being able to give his family a better life by using his vast martial arts knowledge. Po Fong later adopted a Hawaiian name, Po Pai. Kane Pai, the son of Po Pai, was one of six children and had a son, Daniel Kane Pai, born in Kamuela, Hawaii. Grandmaster - Po Pai taught his grandson the family martial art style which contained mainly elements of the crane and dragon movements as well as other animal styles which were later contained within a larger martial arts system called Pai Lum Tao. His grandmother was a master of the white crane system and his father was a Judo expert. During this time of training, it is said that Po Pai sent his grandson to the White Lotus Monastery, Byakurenji, on the northern coast of Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands, to study Kobayashi-ryu karate-do, White Lotus Kenpo and he received his black belt.
After the end of World War II, Daniel Pai went to work on the Parker Ranch on the "Big Island " herding cattle. During this time, Daniel Pai and Ed Parker, who would become a famous kenpo master, worked and trained together. Pai studied the art of Judo/Jujitsu and massage with Professor Osakis and Richard Takamora. He was also involved with the Hawaiian Kenpo Association.
In 1951, Daniel Pai joined the U. S. Army and was stationed on the Mainland. He opened his first school in the back of his Sunset Boulevard home just before leaving to fight in the Korean War. He reenlisted in 1953, and spoke of being in Vietnam in 1954. He retired from active duty in December 1955 and in May 1962 he was given an honorable discharge after completing his military obligation. During his service to his country, Daniel Pai was awarded 4 Bronze Stars, Korean Service Medal, U. N. Service Medal, and the National Defense Medal.
Dr. Daniel Pai graduated from the Chicago Medical College, Calcutta India on June 29, 1960 with a degree in Homeopathic Medicine and during the 1960's he worked at 20th Century Fox as a stuntman.
Throughout the mid-sixties and early seventies, he opened schools throughout the United States, with instructors in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Pennsylvania,Tennessee, Connecticut, Colorado, California, Canada and Hawaii. During this time he was operating a school in Daytona Beach and assisting with the operations across the country. This era peaked with fifty plus Pai Lum and Fire Dragon schools operating in North America. Over the next two decades some of these students, who trained mostly in kenpo, stayed close to Great Grandmaster - Pai as he trained new students in Kung Fu and Tai Chi disciplines. Great Grandmaster Pai's martial arts system became known as the White Dragon.
In 1966 after spending 20 years as a merchant marine, Master-Jim McIntosh brought a vast knowledge of the Asian martial arts to the United States through a martial art system known as Gong Yuen Chuan Fa, the way of the hard and soft fist. Training with Master McIntosh was very rough and physically and mentally demanding. Sifu-Glenn Wilson was one of only three Sifus produced by Master McIntosh.
In 1974 the Gong Yuen Chuan Fa Federation was established to govern the ranking and curriculum taught. Sifu-Glenn was assigned the duties as director and has served faithfully ever since. The virtues of Gong Yuen Chuan Fa's concrete foundation includes four systems; Shorinji Kempo, Lo Han - Buddhist Monk Boxing, Plum Flower system and the Five Animal School. This combination would prove to be an unbeatable combination of fighting, empty hand forms and weaponry.
Since Master-McIntosh had retired, Sifu Glenn Wilson followed his teachers advice and sought out to add to his curriculum and in the early seventies was sent to meet the world renowned Kung fu Grandmaster from Hawaii, Daniel Kane Pai. Their friendship was instantaneous and Grandmaster-Pai was very impressed with the young Sifu's level of skills and with the awesome style he taught.
In 1974 Grandmaster-Pai accepted Sifu-Glenn C. Wilson as a student with Sifu-Glenn maintaining the rank he held in Gong Yuen Chuan Fa and with the Kou Shu Organization in Taiwan, that was 3rd higher level. The traditional blend of two great systems - White Dragon & The Way of the Hard & Soft fist began.
Sifu-Glenn began a life long endeavor to study the disciplines of Bok Leen Pai, Pai Lum Tao and Yang Tai Chi. At the request of his teacher, Grandmaster Daniel Kane Pai, Sifu-Glenn would begin to teach the traditional Lohan and Plum Flower forms to the rest of the Pai Lum Tao Families.
In 1979 Sifu-Glenn Wilson was elevated to the prestigious Rank of Si Gung by Grandmaster Pai and the Kou Shu Federation of Taiwan.
In 1992, Great Grandmaster-Daniel Kane Pai was in the process of organizing all his Pai Lum Tao schools with several associated systems under an umbrella organization called the World White Dragon Kung Fu Society. Upon the request of the Great Grandmaster, Si Gung-Glenn Wilson was given the honor to oversee the establishing of this organization to protect and to preserve the curriculum.
In 1993, while in the Dominican Republic, Great Grandmaster-Daniel Kane Pai passed from this life and was laid to rest with full military honors, at the Hawaiian National Cemetery. A legacy of knowledge and wisdom was left with many devoted practitioners of Pai Lum Tao across several decades.
Under the direction of Si Gung-Glenn C. Wilson, a Board of Directors was appointed during 1994 to protect and preserve the curriculum of the Pai Lum Tao family, as Si Gung-Glenn had promised his teacher. During 1994 and 1995 there were a few individuals who would not conform to the by-laws of the World White Dragon Kung Fu Society and there was a division in the organization.
Keeping his promise to his teacher, Si Gung-Glenn Wilson established the umbrella organization, The White Dragon Warrior Society, Inc. This non-profit organization is devoted to protecting and preserving the dream of Great Grandmaster Daniel Kane Pal. Si Tai Gung-Glenn has served this organization with unselfish devotion to insure that each school will train hard to understand the origins and curriculum of Gong Yuen Chuan Fa - Pai Lum Tao and remain united as one family.
For More information on our Pai Lum Tao Kung Fu history see our W.D.W.S., Inc. home page: www.pailum.org
Colin_Linz
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Byakuren ken are a set of techniques we use in Shorinji Kempo where the guard hand also preforms the counter attack. Doshin So studied this form of Kempo when he lived in China, then later went on to study the Giwaken style.The Kai said:
Brother John
Senior Master
Rick Wade said:
yeah, but Rick....
I sure wish you could find some specific information on this first, maybe with some details or something.
Your Brother
John
Colin_Linz
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This is not to say there are no other Byakuren ken styles, but Im sure that the Byakuren ken style of China no longer exists as a style; however it was one that Doshin So studied while living in China and incorporated its techniques within Shorinji Kempo.
There is a school teaching White Lotus in Conn. I'll see if I can find there address for you. I belive irt is also taught in Calif but I have no information to back this just word of mouth.
edited
found it try contacting the people at this site
http://www.white-lotus.com/
edited
found it try contacting the people at this site
http://www.white-lotus.com/
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
Hi Folks!The Kai said:
Dear Kai,
Bok Leen Pai/Bai Ling Pai is in my opinion a conglomeartion of Daniel Pai various influences in regards to his training in Okinawan Kenpo, Hawaiian Kenpo/kempo, and different kung fu styles he studied or was influenced by [such as Hung Gar,Praying Mantis,and Bai Mei/Pat Mei{white eyebrow}] The notable aspect of the White Lotus Kenpo is it's self defense techniques. Here is a partial list of the names of some of the techniques from Glen wilson's group:
"The forms and fist sets are where the individual techniques join together to manipulate and overcome an opponent. These fist sets are applied to a prescribed attack: a choke, a grab, a kick to attackers, etc. Each rank (in the Juniors and Adult classes) must know a set of fist sets. These were created by the Legendary Daniel K Pai and Ed Parker (cousins). Some of these may be similar to American Kenpo Karate and Tracy's Kenpo. Master Ed Parker taught the Tracy Brothers and Created American Kenpo Karate."
These are:
YELLOW
THUNDER AND EARTH
YIELDING FIRE
BITE OF THE VIPER
REMOVING THE JEWELS
HIDDEN SPEAR
ESCAPING SPARROW
PUSHING THE CIRCLE
ORANGE
PENETRATING EARTH
DANGEROUS WATERS
GENTLE THUNDER
TWISTING BIRD
TIGER IN THE CAVE {also known as "Tiger exits the cave"}
AROUSING MOUNTAIN
TACKLE TECHNIQUES
PURPLE
SUMO[tracy-org 2]
BLOCKING THE KICK[tracy-org 4]
HEADLOCK TECHNIQUES [tracy-org 5]
CRASH OF THE EAGLE[tracy-org 6]
RISING ELBOW[tracy-pur 9]
OPPONENT AT SIDES[tracy-org 10]
PASSING THE HORIZON[tracy-org 11]
WRAP AROUNDS [tracy-blue 9]
KIMONO GRAB[tracy-org 12]
BLUE
FULL NELSON
LOCKING ARM [tracy-pur 4]
WINDMILL GUARD[trac-pur 5]
AIMING THE SPEAR[tracy-org-21]
SPIRALING WRIST[tracy-pur 6]
DRIVING ELBOWS
CROSSING TALONS [tracy-pur 2 {crossing talon}]
CUTTING THE PAGODA[tracy?]
EAGLE PIN[tracy-pur 11]
CRANE LEAP[tracy-org 28]
GREEN
SHACKLE BREAK
DRAWBRIDGE
KOU SHU CROSS
DIVIDED SWORDS
SLICING DRAGON
RAISING THE SWORD
ARM HOOK
CROSSING THE SUN
CROUCHING FALCON
OPENING THE FAN
BROWN
BREAKING THE CROSS
RESTRAINING THE PRISONER
TWISTING TIGER
CIRCLING ARMS
SEA SERPENT
SILVER BLADES
PRAYING MANTIS
ROCKING ELBOW
RAISING THE STAFF
STRIKING FANG
GRAY
CIRCLING CRANE
FLOWING HANDS
JUMPING CRANE
DANCE OF THE DAGGERS
ELEMENTS OF BATTLE
SHORT WING EAGLE'S CRASH
SHRIEKING SERPENT
FLASHING WINGS
KICK OF THE TIGER
SNAKE AND RAM
BLACK
CONTINUOUS THUNDER
FALCON'S FLIGHT
WALKING SPIRIT
RIDING THE DRAGON THROUGH HEAVEN
WONDERING BLACK TIGER
WHITE APE GRASPING THE HEAVENS
CRANE DRIES ITS WINGS
TWISTING CRANE
SNAKE SHEDS IT'S SKIN
TIGER AND CRANE'S SEARCH
BLACK 1 - 6
STRIKING FROM HEAVEN
DANCE OF DEATH
ESCAPING TIGER
LAUGHING MONKEY
TRAPPING CLAW
EAGLES RELEASE
RETREATING MONKEY
CONSTRICTING SERPENT
LEOPARD PALM
DRIVING TIGER
EAGLE SPREADS HIS WINGS
MONKEY ROLL
PLAYFUL MONKEY
DRAGON STANDS UP
COBRA AND HAWK
PRAYING MONKEY
MONKEY SPINS DRAGON
CLINGING SERPENT
POUNDING JACKAL
THUNDER OF THE ZODIAC
SEARCHING FALCON
YOUNG FALCON
UNSCATHED FALCON
ESCAPING THE DUNGEON
TORMENTING DRAGON
TIGER EXITS THE CAVE
SEARCHING TIGER
AMBIGUOUS RAM'S HORNS
SEARCHING RAM
WHITE APE'S EMBRACE
WHITE APE SMILES
WHITE APE STIRS THE WATER
CRANE AND RAVEN
RECOILING CRANK'S BEAK
PECKING CRANK'S WAY
WHITE LOTUS BLOSSOMS
WHITE LOTUS TRIAGRAM
GRASPING THE L0TUS
FLAILING LOTUS FIST
FLASHING PALMS OF FIRE
POISON SNAKE BITE
LION'S PATH
SHARK'S PREY
WHITE SHARK HUNTING
MOUNT AND RIDE THE TIGER
DANCE OF THE SWAN
POLISHING THE BRASS
INFALLIBLE DRAGON
SEARCHING FOR BUDDHA
WAVING THE CLOUDS
ZEPHYR HAND
TAMING THE TIGER
IMPETUS RAM
RAM'S JOURNEY
WHITE APE PRAYS
Now, as you can see if you are familiar with the Tracy System of Kenpo, Mr. Wilson has many tracy techniques within his syllabus. This I believe is also the core of the "gong yuen chuan fa" {goju kempo (jap.)} That he teaches, which is basically a tracy offshoot. Here are some of the Pai Lum techniques from GM Pai's manual...
breaking the collar,bear's paw,python's coil,hammer and nail,taking and giving,falling off the mountain,snow and heat,arrows that missed,force and harmony,monkey's fury,moving river,dagger in the sleeve,thrashing wind,one with nature,dragon's tail,hidden key,fire from the dragon,sword that cuts two ways,holding back the river,specter,rage of the crane,twisting adder,emperor's scepter,fighting with the wall,immortal man's cowl,pointing preist,purifying the garment,chinese rocket,refusing the gift,looking front and seeing back,
As you can see, many of Pai Lum's Bok Leen Pai curriculum is not taught by Mr. Wilson. But, the key ingredient is the fact that the Bok Leen Pai format is mainly a technique based art as kenpo/chuan fa was originally taught.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
5th Degree BB-Bill Gregory's Kajukenpo-Pai Lum
OP
The Kai
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It seems to be mainly a tracy variation of kenpo? at least as far as the kenpo training goes. The stories about being shipped off to a temple for a few years always raises the suspections.
BTW are there any pictures of Ed Parker with Mr pai? are the organizations still close?
Todd
BTW are there any pictures of Ed Parker with Mr pai? are the organizations still close?
Todd
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
The Kai said:
Hi Folks!
Dear Todd,
I think you misconstruded my post. In the earlier section with the quotation marks...that was taken from Glen Wilson's website...then I commented on it and gave a list of the techniques that were listed in Pai Manual which are NOT either Parker nor Tracy techniques. The tracy influence in Mr. Wilson's version of the art, namely "Gong Yuen Chuan Fa", not Pai's Bok Leen Pai system. In regards to the white lotus temple in okinawa, there are a few people i know who have researched it in the past and have not found the temple. One story has him [pai] climbing up a pole and being forced to hold onto the pole upside down. Being a "naughty child" after the monk left, he climbed back down the pole! When the monk returned and saw the child sitting at the bottom of the pole. When the monk asked him why he was at the bottom of the pole, Pai simply said "I was tired". "SMACK" was the response from the monk! ..and up the pole Pai went! Years later, Chosei Motobu would relate a similar story about his father's training and why motobu was called "Monkey" for his climbing skills. So, was Pai simply taking someone elses story as his own? There is a new book that is coming out on Pai's life by one of his elder students and I look forward to seeing some of the various "stories" and the various aspects and arts explained more clearly.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
M
monkey-a-go-go
Guest
Pole climbing must be some sort of a past time on okinawa LOL. Theres a story about Isshinryu's founder tatsuo shimabuka shimmying up a pole, flipping around and coming back down head first. Love those martial arts legends and myths. I think there is another Pai organization not afflilated with Wilson on the web somewhere. It seemed not to be so over the top.
The White Dragon warrior
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The answers to some of our questions Kai are in Rick Wade's post about mr. Wilson. I will post some more for you to see. As you should be alerted there are Major differences between Pai Lum and Pai lum tao. I don't know why Kenpojoe did not make notice of that. But after the death of Daniel K. Pai if you research the subject you'll find that the system had split into two completely different factions. I will post some information on what i know about Gong Yuen Chaun Fa since i've studied it since 1984 and i don't want anyone to make incorrect asumptions or misleading generalizations, What Gong Yuen Chaun Fa is briefly found here..
1974- D.K.P Accepted Glenn C Wilson as a student and Wilson maintained the rank he held in Gong Yuen Chaun Fa as the director of the the Gong Yuen Chaun Fa federation and also with the Kou Shu Organization in Taiwan as the third highest rank. This began the blend of Gong Yuen Chaun fa and Pai Lum Tao.
Gong Yuen Chaun Fas concrete foundation includes four systems; Shorinji Kempo, Lo Han- Buddist Monk Boxing, the Plum Flower system, and the Five traditional Shoalin Animal Styles. During this time period Wilson was requested by Daniel K. Pai to teach the traditional Lo Han and Plum Flower forms to the rest of the Pai Lum Tao families. As Wilson studied Bok leen Pai, Pai Lum Tao and Yang Tai Chi.
As you can see Gong Yuen Chaun Fa existed way before Glenn Wilson met Daniel Kane Pai. And that they met and have been working together since 1974. So when KenpoJoe stated "This I believe is also the core of the "gong yuen chuan fa" {goju kempo (jap.)}" I found it to be an incorrect assumption with misleading acconotations.
Also if KenpoJoe was correct and let me state this clearly ~If~ Kenpojoe was correct about the kenpo portion of the style and If he is correct when he stated "These were created by the Legendary Daniel K Pai and Ed Parker (cousins). Some of these may be similar to American Kenpo Karate and Tracy's Kenpo. Master Ed Parker taught the Tracy Brothers and Created American Kenpo Karate." Than for the sake of reason, wouldn't it just make sense that the Ed Parker,Tracy Brothers, and Daniel K Pai systems would all contain similar elements?
Becareful who you assertain Information from it would appear to me that some of the information is Either Hap-hazardly Mistaken, or Maliciously Misleading.
If you truly have an interest in finding truth or looking into the differences of the Pai Lum and Pai Lum Tao factions, Than may i suggest looking in depth at the last years of D.K.P. from 1989 to 1993. Because this is where things become foggy for some, but not for everyone.Or perhaps, you could search public articles and quotes from D.K.P. around this time period. I would suggest the April 1993 edition of "inside kung fu magazine" which contains one of the last interveiws with the Late Great Grandmaster Pai.
I sincerely hope my post has been some help to you all ,and i truly wish you all the best on your journeys for peace, balance, and truth even you kenpojoe.
Thank you for your time.
1974- D.K.P Accepted Glenn C Wilson as a student and Wilson maintained the rank he held in Gong Yuen Chaun Fa as the director of the the Gong Yuen Chaun Fa federation and also with the Kou Shu Organization in Taiwan as the third highest rank. This began the blend of Gong Yuen Chaun fa and Pai Lum Tao.
Gong Yuen Chaun Fas concrete foundation includes four systems; Shorinji Kempo, Lo Han- Buddist Monk Boxing, the Plum Flower system, and the Five traditional Shoalin Animal Styles. During this time period Wilson was requested by Daniel K. Pai to teach the traditional Lo Han and Plum Flower forms to the rest of the Pai Lum Tao families. As Wilson studied Bok leen Pai, Pai Lum Tao and Yang Tai Chi.
As you can see Gong Yuen Chaun Fa existed way before Glenn Wilson met Daniel Kane Pai. And that they met and have been working together since 1974. So when KenpoJoe stated "This I believe is also the core of the "gong yuen chuan fa" {goju kempo (jap.)}" I found it to be an incorrect assumption with misleading acconotations.
Also if KenpoJoe was correct and let me state this clearly ~If~ Kenpojoe was correct about the kenpo portion of the style and If he is correct when he stated "These were created by the Legendary Daniel K Pai and Ed Parker (cousins). Some of these may be similar to American Kenpo Karate and Tracy's Kenpo. Master Ed Parker taught the Tracy Brothers and Created American Kenpo Karate." Than for the sake of reason, wouldn't it just make sense that the Ed Parker,Tracy Brothers, and Daniel K Pai systems would all contain similar elements?
Becareful who you assertain Information from it would appear to me that some of the information is Either Hap-hazardly Mistaken, or Maliciously Misleading.
If you truly have an interest in finding truth or looking into the differences of the Pai Lum and Pai Lum Tao factions, Than may i suggest looking in depth at the last years of D.K.P. from 1989 to 1993. Because this is where things become foggy for some, but not for everyone.Or perhaps, you could search public articles and quotes from D.K.P. around this time period. I would suggest the April 1993 edition of "inside kung fu magazine" which contains one of the last interveiws with the Late Great Grandmaster Pai.
I sincerely hope my post has been some help to you all ,and i truly wish you all the best on your journeys for peace, balance, and truth even you kenpojoe.
Thank you for your time.
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
Hi folks!
First of all, I want "White Dragon Warrior" to be aware that my last posted response on this particular topic was from over 4 YEARS AGO!
In response to your post...
1. I agree with you wholeheartedly that there are indeed several differences between Daniel Kane Pai's Pai Lum & Glenn Wilson's Pai Lum Tao. I did make notice of that in my posts and I don't know why you didn't notice that!
2, After GGM Pai's death, the style actually split into several factions, not just 2. I have done research on this topic at that time & as of now, I still stand by my statements. If you read my previous posts, I clearly state from Shirtaigung Wilson's website that he learned "Gong Yuen Chuan Fa" from Jim McIntoch [who, to the best of my knowledge,was the founder of that style], not Daniel Pai. That he had studied the style and only mentioned it as his main style of study in over 22 martial arts magazine articles he was featured in prior to 1984.
3.That, from the research I have done, as well as Glenn Wilson's own book, it clearly shows him doing Tracy Kenpo techniques with the afore-mentioned tracy names for those techniques. In regards to the Lohan & Plum Blossom material, In another magazine article I have on Shirtaigung Wilson, He himself clearly states in print that he learned that particuler material from John Tsai, not Daniel Pai. He, as listed in the section from the website quoted, Asked GGM Pai to include those arts into Pai Lum Tao & Pai agreed. I don't know if that's true because I wasn't there. so, what exactly do you consider "incorrect and/or misleading"?
4.I do not state that Pai & Ed Parker ever created ANYTHING together! From what I've found out, they only knew each other through the tournament circuit and to the best of my knowledge, never even knew each other in hawaii! To say in hawaii that someone is your "cousin" at times is a generic reference to you both being from "the islands". Ed Parker himself never worked at the "Parker Ranch" so they didn't meet there! I only quoted "another website" and that was not my opinion on that subject.
Please be more specific on what you exactly consider "Hap-hazardly Mistaken, or Maliciously Misleading"
I have all the articles you mention, as well as a 2 page response from several of the pai lum seniors in response to Shirtaigung Wilson being listed as the "inheiritor of the pai lum system". I have no personal problem with Glenn Wilson, nor his system of Pai Lum Tao. As a matter of fact, I own all of the publicly released material from him including his book and initial 4 videos and look forward to his upcoming DVD series from Unique Publications as well.
But, the topic on this post is on Bok Leen Pai, not Gong Yuen Chuan Fa & I stand by my statements.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
