when your attacker hits the ground

[Blooming Lotus]

Attended day 1 of a a security guard upgrading course yesterday and so happens that in Australia at present there are some extremely interesting and relevant cases to ma ers concerned with defence application and law, not going to jail and causing death in defence.

I have already posted on one, but there is another case of a famous cricket hero who was hit by a martial bouncer in a night club and was killed when he hit the ground ( as opposed to from the actual blow). This bouncer, while likely justified in the strike authority, following the standard proceedure, and without intent to cause death, is now being charged for manslaughter. Do you think he was negligent in his duty of care to ensure his safe fall???

And how to combat bad falls potentially causing death when takedown / ko / or hard strike is neccessary, and how responsible should we be or are we in terms of law? I have a fave takedown or 2 myself as one of my first ports of call, so this case is a concern.

What do you all think??


Blooming Lotus

 

[lvwhitebir]

I have already posted on one, but there is another case of a famous cricket hero who was hit by a martial bouncer in a night club and was killed when he hit the ground ( as opposed to from the actual blow). This bouncer, while likely justified in the strike authority, following the standard proceedure, and without intent to cause death, is now being charged for manslaughter. Do you think he was negligent in his duty of care to ensure his safe fall???

IMO, if he used legally appropriate force without the intent to cause death, then the result of the blow was not within his control. However, there are always a lot of extenuating circumstances and martial artists are expected to have the ability of controlling their opponent and the force of their own blows. He will probably have to answer a lot of questions of why he had to strike him instead of restrain him and the answer will go a lot towards his case.

And how to combat bad falls potentially causing death when takedown / ko / or hard strike is neccessary, and how responsible should we be or are we in terms of law? I have a fave takedown or 2 myself as one of my first ports of call, so this case is a concern.

Where the law is concerned it's always best to be prudent and responsible, especially being a martial artist with experience. When in a "minor" confrontation there is always the chance of death (even sparring in class). Your job is to minimize the possibility of serious harm by avoiding the conflict if at all possible, restrain/subdue if required, and maim/kill if no other recourse is available and you fear your own death. Some circumstances allow you to fly through the steps quickly, while others never allow you to reach the third.

At least in the US, your frame of mind is extremely important. If you a "fighting" to simply dominate the opponent and not attempting to escape, you can easily be convicted of manslaughter. If you try to escape at every turn, only to have him maintain the attack, then it will be perceived as beyond your control and you will likely get off.

WhiteBirch

 

[Blooming Lotus]

That's all good and well, but unfortunately , as far as the court is concerned, we are trained and should know better. There's a clause in there about reasonably forseeable damage prevention........ a good mouth piece for either side can twist it how they like .
It's a concern and what it usually comes down to in these cases is proving "prime effacy" ( that there is case to answer to ). Interpretations can be *****..... In fact so can the law if they're not playing on your side.


BL

 

[still learning]

Hello, Just guessing? If you are in any confrontion...our actions makes us responsible. You push,bump him,hit,strike,block,kick...etc. and he falls and dies from the fall. It was because of our actions. Even if we were trying to avoid this bad guy, we may face a possible jail time, unless the jurys believe it was self-defense or accident. How many times you hear of two people in line for tickets and someone shoves the other guy who falls and hit his head and dies. Whose fault....the concrete or the pusher? This is a tough one..the way the laws are? Plus a good attorney can get you clear...OJ did it!..Scott didn't.. Avoid if you can..leave now...Awereness....Aloha

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Even in self defence, you need to be really careful on what force you respond with, again particularly as martial artists trained in aspects of combat. Unless you are defnding your life, if your opponent dies when they hit the ground, or even falls off the stretcher, you are liable. Crazy world, but that's life and responsiblity for your actions.

Blooming Lotus