When does it happen?

[Michael Billings]

Keep the faith, train hard, train consistantly, and care about the quality of your training. Just being there every day is not enough. ... or is it?

It is if you are there say 3,520 days, every day, and still refuse to test for Black. Maybe you have a home, but it is not the right home for you. Realize, I literally mean 10 years.

I know some really fine Brown Belts who will never strap on a Black. They have the ability, skills, attitude, are excellent teachers, but refuse the next step. They just can't see themselves in a Black Belt. These guys would never demean or ask the value of a Black Belt, or questions it's value the way some people have to. Rather they set standards for themselves totally unobtainable by anyones standards. They have been weighed, they have been measured, and they found themselves wanting (A Knight's Tale.) But the rest of us consider them some of the Blackest Brown Belts in the world, who should have been Black years ago. A couple I know are at 15 or more years of training. They for sure don't get why people think they have to have a Black in 4 years or 5. I don't either sometimes.

All instructors know there are plateaus when we risk losing, and do lose students. Orange Belt is a common one, as is Green. Then there is the Browns who are happy where they are. Another level is Shodan, or 1st Black. That was the goal, they got it, they move on. Some move "well" some don't. But what does it matter? You stay long enough, train hard enough, have the right teacher, and you will learn how to flow, rip, tear, and explode, with a relaxed power that is amazing to others. Just perserver, with the right teacher.

It comes when it comes and rank does not have anything to do with it, or it does not have to.

Oss,
-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

 

[stacks]

Originally posted by pesilat
Very good point.


Anyone can flail quickly. But it takes time, patience, and dedicated slowness to reach a level where you can "flail quickly" with fluid power and accuracy.

Mike

agreed, any monkey can punch and kick. I tell all my students "you had to crawl to walk - walk to run " you have to start with the basics and work your way from there. the guy on the top of the mountain did not fall there
stacks:karate:

 

[theletch1]

Wow, Pesilat, I thought I was the only one that did kata and self defense at what I call "tai-chi" speed! It works for me when I'm just learning a new technique or a new kata and once I've learned the basics of the move I'll continue to do the move at slow motion to make sure I have all the angles correct. By the time I've done it SLOWLY a bunch of times I can normally bang it out at an impressive speed CORRECTLY. Speed is great but not worth anything if you're not doing anything but flopping around.
I don't think there is any particular moment when speed happens. For me it's been a gradual thing and I still have a long way to go. I've had brown 3s tell me I'm really getting a lot faster than when I started (I'm a green now) but I can't see it. I guess that is the way it is supposed to happen. Don't concentrate so much on getting fast and just allow experience to make you fast.

respectfully,
theletch1 :asian:

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by theletch1
Wow, Pesilat, I thought I was the only one that did kata and self defense at what I call "tai-chi" speed!

Nope

It's something that's been stressed to me by several of my instructors. And something that I've found to be completely true over the years.

Speaking of Tai Chi, I'm going to go check out a Tai Chi class in an hour If the guy's any good - and, unless he's flat-out lying about his background, he should be - then I'll start training in Tai Chi every Mon/Wed.

Mike

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
I'm not sure what you're getting at but I don't think I like it

Good, keep looking out thru the curtains, you'll see me waiting for you!

 

[satans.barber]

I don't think I can move like that, at 1st brown

I can snap out the pre-set techniques OK, but if I have to make something random up then it's never quite in the same style, or at least it doesn't feel that way. Without taping myself I wouldn't know!

I do think it's a gradual thing though, rather than a moment of clarity as some people have suggested. It's like playing instruments, you don't suddenly become good one day, it's just years of practice and refinement, like anything else.

Ian.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Good, keep looking out thru the curtains, you'll see me waiting for you!

(peeks through the curtains)

 

[marshallbd]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Again as Tarabos said is there really a definitive answer, probably not. However I will say when anyone has the ability to move out of the "mechanical" stage then you will get your answer. It takes years and good quality instruction to get beyond the mechanical stage.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the "mechanical Stage"?

 

[Michael Billings]

I think at my 1st Black, I may have been still "Primitive", or maybe just real fast and hard "Mechanical", with occassional burst of the Spontaneous Stage.

Primitive Stage - the stage of learning where moves are crudely executed. See also: Mechanical Stage, Spontaneous Stage.

Mechanical Stage - the stage of learning where movements are clarified and defined. Students will often be more equipped to verbalize answers rather than physically utilize them.

Spontaneous Stage - stage of learning where the student's reactions are natural.

See here for more definitions:

Kenpo-Texas.com Link

-Michael

 

[KenpoDave]

I can snap out the pre-set techniques OK, but if I have to make something random up then it's never quite in the same style, or at least it doesn't feel that way. [/B]

Check your opponents/partners. You should be able to tell by their reaction, or ask them.

I do think it's a gradual thing though, rather than a moment of clarity as some people have suggested. It's like playing instruments, you don't suddenly become good one day, it's just years of practice and refinement, like anything else.[/B]

I think it is both. A gradual climb with intermittent spikes. But I like what Katie said about green belt. I tell my students that it is like up until green, you have been learning the notes and the chords, but now we are going to start playing the song.

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Michael Billings

I know some really fine Brown Belts who will never strap on a Black. They have the ability, skills, attitude, are excellent teachers, but refuse the next step. They just can't see themselves in a Black Belt. These guys would never demean or ask the value of a Black Belt, or questions it's value the way some people have to. Rather they set standards for themselves totally unobtainable by anyones standards.

Excellent topic! I had wondered about this lately.

I just don't understand.... If a person put in the time and effort to go from white all the way through to brown, why stop? What is "unattainable" about getting to black?

Why should the BB test be radically different than testing for lesser belts (other than being more intense and longer)? Is it the thesis? Are the members of the evaluation board to be feared? Is the cost of BB testing prohibitive? What reasons have been given for stopping at brown?

- Ceicei

 

[marshallbd]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I think at my 1st Black, I may have been still "Primitive", or maybe just real fast and hard "Mechanical", with occassional burst of the Spontaneous Stage.

Primitive Stage - the stage of learning where moves are crudely executed. See also: Mechanical Stage, Spontaneous Stage.

Mechanical Stage - the stage of learning where movements are clarified and defined. Students will often be more equipped to verbalize answers rather than physically utilize them.

Spontaneous Stage - stage of learning where the student's reactions are natural.

See here for more definitions:

Kenpo-Texas.com Link

-Michael

Thanks Michael......I added the link to my favorites so that I can refer to it often. It should help me greatly when reading these posts until I can master the terminology