What's the deal??

[Rob_Broad]

You have to wonder about a person claiming to be the head of a system that was taught to him while he was a guard in a jail by an inmate. You also have to take into consideration what jail it was. Folsom prison is a pretty famous place, because it had the many of the worst inmates out there. I think he is capitalizing on an opportune situation since Mitose is dead and can't refute the truth.

 

[Dave Simmons]

Rob,

I agree! Automatic style head honcho and mystic cosmo smoke and mirrors expert.

Take care,

Dave Simmons:lol:

 

[Blindside]

Oddly enough I have run across his videos on ebay, but not in the kenpo section. It was under escrima/arnis/kali listings that I saw his videos where he was listed as a guro, and teaching a stick art. Anyone know his FMA background?

Just curious,

Lamont

 

[Rob_Broad]

Unfortunately as more of the older generation of martial artists pass on, there will be more of these type of people making claims of their lineage.

 

[Goldendragon7]

So, it is good to ask around and find out the true background before all those that know are not around to ask anymore.

:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

The Modern Arnis community can expect to go through this with the passing of Remy Presas. maybe they can learn from our mistakes before gets to be too late.

 

[Goldendragon7]

But people are people. Tim seems to have his head on straight. I don't think he cares what the others do..... He is already heading in the right direction that he wants to follow. The rest can fend for themselves or seek and convert.

:asian:

 

[Ronin]

Man and I use to work in the jails. What a scary thing it would be to teach those low lifes kenpo. Many of them lack discipline and maturity, thats how they ended up there in the first place. What would be funny is to print up some t-shirts that say "outlaw kenpo student trained in cell block a" I wonder what their forms would consist of? I could see it now at tournaments "My form is fudge pack set 1" Perhaps they have soap picking up techniques as part of the fundamentals. Sorry I am starting to ramble again....

 

[Goldendragon7]

Then they will attack a guard and he will shoot him.!!

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Ronin

"My form is fudge pack set 1"

EEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!! I'd rather die than dummy
for that one!

 

[Goldendragon7]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ditto!!!

 

[tigerstorm]

Gentlemen,
I believe that your getting slightly off track on the question of Bruce Juchnick. Hanshi Bruce Juchnick did study with Great Grandmaster James Mitose while he was in prison however the catch to this is that he studied mainly the mental aspects while there. He did however get some limited physical training from Grandmaster Mitose while he was gardening, (I believe at the governors house). Grandmaster Mitose was imprisoned for one of his students killing someone. Grandmaster was a very legitimate practitioner, who started training in the family art of Kempo at the age of 5. His imprisonment was the result as I said of a student killing a man, it was thought that Grandmaster Mitose had given the order for the student to do so. Should also mention that Grandmaster Mitose was a Shinto priest. Whether Hanshi Juchnik is for real or not is i guess an opinion. I dont personally think that he has the full range of Grandmaster Mitoses teachings since grandmaster Mitose broke the ideas of Kempo into three parts. Again most of Hanshi Juchniks training was mental, that is therefore the side he tries to relay in his own teachings. He teaches Sei Kosho-Shorie Kai. Now if in this I have made a mistake on an age or number or such please excuse me. In closing I do wish to defend Grandmaster Mitose in saying he did not just teach Kempo to prisoners, and he was a very highly regarded man in his own right. To go quickly down the line, Grandmaster William K.S. Chow studied under Grandmaster Mitose and is one of 5 black belts from his Hawaiin school. Grandmaster Chow went on to teach Grandmaster Ed Parker and down.
Tigerstorm

 

[Chiduce]

Tigerstorm, I think that was well put! Bruce Juchnik is part of the Jukokai, Juko-Ryu family in the Kiyojute Ryu Kempo Bugei Of Dr. William Durbin And Dr. Rod Sacharnoski! Hanshi Juchnik is recognized by the World Head Of Family Sokeship Council. This in itself, tells a positive bit about the master. " In 1953, he ( James Mitose) moved to the mainland in california. Where he taught eventually several atudents, with his most prominent one being Nimr R. Hassan. Hassan trained directly in Mitose's house learning in-depth aspects of not only traditional Kosho Ryu Kempo Jujitsu and Shorei Ryu Kempo Karate, but also Koga Ha Ninjitsu, including Koppo. Later, Mitose brought Bruce Juchnik under his tutelage. A chinese stylist, Junik was instructed for nearly five years in the principles of Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo, which differed from the training he previously received. When Mitose died, Juchnik decided to preserve the art, as he understood it, and pass it on to future generations. Among Bruce Juchniks students has been Thomas Barro Mitose, son of James Mayaoshi Mitose, who is the current head of Kosho Shorei Ryu, teaches his intrepretations of Kempo, using influences from other instructors of the martial arts. Bruce Juchnik heads the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai, which is a cultural organization preserving not only the traditional art of Kosho Ryu Kempo, but also the cultural art of japan, including Shodo, calligraphy, and Shiatsu." Source: ("Excerpts From Chapter Four-America; Kiyojute Ryu Kai Kiyojute Ryu Kempo Bugei Dr. William Durbin, Soke Author, 1994"): Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by tigerstorm

Gentlemen,
I believe that your getting slightly off track on the question of Bruce Juchnick. Hanshi Bruce Juchnick did study with Great Grandmaster James Mitose while he was in prison however the catch to this is that he studied mainly the mental aspects while there. He did however get some limited physical training from Grandmaster Mitose while he was gardening, (I believe at the governors house). Grandmaster Mitose was imprisoned for one of his students killing someone. Grandmaster was a very legitimate practitioner, who started training in the family art of Kempo at the age of 5. His imprisonment was the result as I said of a student killing a man, it was thought that Grandmaster Mitose had given the order for the student to do so. Should also mention that Grandmaster Mitose was a Shinto priest. Whether Hanshi Juchnik is for real or not is i guess an opinion. I dont personally think that he has the full range of Grandmaster Mitoses teachings since grandmaster Mitose broke the ideas of Kempo into three parts. Again most of Hanshi Juchniks training was mental, that is therefore the side he tries to relay in his own teachings. He teaches Sei Kosho-Shorie Kai. Now if in this I have made a mistake on an age or number or such please excuse me. In closing I do wish to defend Grandmaster Mitose in saying he did not just teach Kempo to prisoners, and he was a very highly regarded man in his own right. To go quickly down the line, Grandmaster William K.S. Chow studied under Grandmaster Mitose and is one of 5 black belts from his Hawaiin school. Grandmaster Chow went on to teach Grandmaster Ed Parker and down.
Tigerstorm

If you're in a MAXIMUM security prison such a Folsom, how can you do any physical martial arts training at all. You would be locked up in a cell 23 out of the 24 hours of the day! My former instructor was a guard at a Max. Security prison here in Massachusetts so that's how I know this . Any thoughts on this?:asian:

 

[Kirk]

The story of Mitose AND Juchnick are not proven
anywhere! I've found books, and websites written by people
making various claims. Anywhere from Mitose being a total
and complete fraud to him being a huge mystical master. Anyone
coming in here saying one or the other, can't produce any proof,
because NONE EXISTS other than periodicals or books where
the author claims to have talked to so and so, or talked to
specific witnesses. The only problem I have are where people
place so much reverence with Mitose, and none for his offspring.
You'd think someone sooo smart and of such high moral standing,
as some would say, would be able to pass that off to his son.
Yet there's people who place reverence with Mitose, and call
Mitose's son a liar, because he's claiming to be the heir apparant.

So many make claims, adamantly about this, but I'll believe it
the day I see something tangible.

 

[Ronin]

jail is for puishment not for play.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Kirk

The story of Mitose AND Juchnick are not proven
anywhere! I've found books, and websites written by people
making various claims. Anywhere from Mitose being a total
and complete fraud to him being a huge mystical master. Anyone
coming in here saying one or the other, can't produce any proof,
because NONE EXISTS other than periodicals or books where
the author claims to have talked to so and so, or talked to
specific witnesses. The only problem I have are where people
place so much reverence with Mitose, and none for his offspring.
You'd think someone sooo smart and of such high moral standing,
as some would say, would be able to pass that off to his son.
Yet there's people who place reverence with Mitose, and call
Mitose's son a liar, because he's claiming to be the heir apparant.

So many make claims, adamantly about this, but I'll believe it
the day I see something tangible.

Ok, I just have 3 questions here! 1. If this claim cannot be proven; then where actually did Kosho Ryu Kempo come from? #2. (The same contoversy rises around the credentials of William K.S. Chow); so where and who did he really learn kenpo from? #3. If these first 2 questions cannot be proven, then would this not bring validity claims to Ed. Parker learning kenpo from Chow? Now i see several facts here; one is that Mitose did in fact live and practice what he called Kosho Ryu Kempo. Second that Chow did live and claim to have learned this Kosho Ryu Kempo from Mitose. Third that Ed. Parker did live and claimed to have learned this Kenpo and Kung Fu mixture from Chow! Fourth, that Bruce Juchnik did in fact Train Thomas Barro Mitose in Kosho Ryu Kempo and Shorei Ryu Kempo Jujitsu. Finally, that Nimr Hassan did in fact train under Mitose in Kosho Ryu Kempo and Koppo. Any thought's here? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[tigerstorm]

Im not trying in anyway to take anyone side on this issue, Im just trying to give out some of the information that I have been told.
I have no proof in front of me nor am I going to pull out books to research Im just saying as best I can what Ive heard and been taught.
James Mitoses uncle was Choki Mitobu, Mitose reportedly had training from him at a young age. Look Mitobu up, if this is true there is some credential there.
As has been stated, and if we wish to talk highly of Mr. Ed Parker, maybe we should be careful, what we say about this gentleman. William K.S. Chow received black rank from this man, and if Mitoses is full of crap as we seem to be going that direction, should I be so bold as to say so is all of Kempo/ Kenpo in the U.S. today.
Ed Parker must have had only, BOGUS training if he studied under William Chow based on the fact that Chows primary instruction came from a man who didnt know jack.
Again Im not trying to belittle info just say that to look at Kempo/Kenpo in America it will almost always travel directly to this man we are belittling.
Also as I said Hanshi Juchniks physical training came from Grandmaster Mitose while he was gardening at the governors house. Lets remember maximum security prison or not, Mitose was not accused of murdering anyone. He was also highly thought of for his work with the U.S. government. (Dont try to look it up the records are sealed).
Again with no disrespect but lets not assume the worst in this case. Im not claiming Mitose had godlike power or was the Greates Master in the world Im just saying maybe were assuming the word prison means horrible person.
Tigerstorm

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tigerstorm

As has been stated, and if we wish to talk highly of Mr. Ed Parker, maybe we should be careful, what we say about this gentleman. William K.S. Chow received black rank from this man, and if Mitoses is full of crap as we seem to be going that direction, should I be so bold as to say so is all of Kempo/ Kenpo in the U.S. today.

The problem comes in with Chow's relation to Mitose. I'm no
expert on this at all, but there's disagreements all over the net
about their relationship together, and the martial arts training
that Chow received. Was it 100% from Mitose? I've heard a
ton of stories answering both yes and no ... and no proof either
way, just adamant claims. Few doubt Chow's knowledge, nor
Parker's .. but a LOT have disputed Mitose's hand in it.

Originally posted by tigerstorm

Also as I said Hanshi Juchniks physical training came from Grandmaster Mitose while he was gardening at the governors house. Lets remember maximum security prison or not, Mitose was not accused of murdering anyone.

The way I heard, it he claimed responsibility for the murder, and
the charge was accessory to murder. That's an accusation in
my book. YET ... few dispute who did the killing in this scenario,
but few think he was an innocent bystander as well. Few also
dispute that Mistose's main income came from extortion, and the
murder in question happened when one of his students/cronies
was sent to collect money.

Originally posted by tigerstorm

He was also highly thought of for his work with the U.S. government. (Dont try to look it up the records are sealed).
Again with no disrespect but lets not assume the worst in this case. Im not claiming Mitose had godlike power or was the Greates Master in the world Im just saying maybe were assuming the word prison means horrible person.
Tigerstorm

His work with the U.S. government is a new one on me. I've read
LOADS of web pages dedicated to praising or attacking Mitose,
yet I've never stumbled on this one.

You're right prison does not necessarily mean horrible person, but
accessory to murder, and extortion puts them on the honorable
mention list to me!

Originally posted by Chiduce

Ok, I just have 3 questions here! 1. If this claim cannot be proven; then where actually did Kosho Ryu Kempo come from? #2. (The same contoversy rises around the credentials of William K.S. Chow); so where and who did he really learn kenpo from? #3. If these first 2 questions cannot be proven, then would this not bring validity claims to Ed. Parker learning kenpo from Chow? Now i see several facts here; one is that Mitose did in fact live and practice what he called Kosho Ryu Kempo. Second that Chow did live and claim to have learned this Kosho Ryu Kempo from Mitose. Third that Ed. Parker did live and claimed to have learned this Kenpo and Kung Fu mixture from Chow! Fourth, that Bruce Juchnik did in fact Train Thomas Barro Mitose in Kosho Ryu Kempo and Shorei Ryu Kempo Jujitsu. Finally, that Nimr Hassan did in fact train under Mitose in Kosho Ryu Kempo and Koppo. Any thought's here? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

I think I've already posted my thoughts in addressing this. But
to reiterate: It's been suggested that Chow's training didn't
only come from Mitose. It's been suggested that a LOT (high
numbers here) of people that have met Mitose were UNimpressed
with his M.A. abilities, yet impressed with Chow's. Ed Parker
did in fact claim to have learned his kenpo from Chow .. he has
stated just as emphatically that he has NO ASSOCIATION with
Mitose as far as training goes.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Mitose had a record a mile long and died in Jail. He was a con man!! Sure he had a martial arts background...... but so did Count Dante!