What Kobudo Weapon you like most

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

My favorite weapon would have to be the naginata. Even though it's not a weapon I learn in my dojo, I would love to learn how to use it. It's just a really great weapon....

But, my favorite weapon that I have used is bo. I feel that bo is the weapon that I wield the best. I also like the fact you don't have to be right up in your opponent's face to attack. I also like the boken and/or katana. They're also really cool to work with.

:samurai:

 

[arnisador]

The naginata does indeed look interesting! All the more so because there's a sport askect too (like kendo and jukendo). Seminars in it frequently occur just barely outside my driving range (in Penn.).

 

[stickarts]

I enjoy the bo since i seem to pick it up quickly and it seems more practical than some weapons. however, i love flipping aroud the nunchucks too!

 

[ajholmes]

My favorite is the tonfa! I like how you can perform so many empty-hand techniques with the tonfa, and it gives a great workout on your forearms. So simplistic, yet devilishly difficult to perfect those little details!

Cheers!

 

[TallAdam85]

See I am not a big fan of the bo it just is kinda an easy weapon just move your hand a little and it looks power but it is easy plus every uses the bo so I Feel it is kind over used
what you think


just let me know how u feel

 

[Sauzin]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Now if you're talking about guys who look like they came straight out of a marching band swinging batons, then I do agree. The bo is not made to be a juggling or twirling instrument and is used this way far too commonly. But a majority of the kobudo practitioners out there know this and for these people, the bo offers a huge array of possibilities and levels of mastery.

I would say that correct use of the bo is no easier then any other weapon. Now sure anyone can pick up a bo and generally follow a long, so the beginner’s learning curve is not quite so steep as other weapons. But when you start talking about doing things right and not injuring yourself then it's no different than anything else.

The bo is a unique tool for understanding hip timing and position. The neat thing about the bo is that it naturally moves with the position of the hip. So if your hip is turned to the wrong position the bo will reflect this. It's like a big compass for which way your hip is pointing.

True power with the bo is not so easily obtained. Now I'm talking a thick hardwood 6' bo here. Not one of those toothpick things. And I'm not talking about "oh look I can make a 'woooshe' noise" power either. I'm talking about, "swing the bo so hard it snaps in mid air" power. Now this kind of power takes technique, and practice, lots of practice. It has nothing to do with how strong you are. And then there's controlling the bo with precision at this velocity. I mean the kind of precision where you could slip 2/3 of the bo through a 4 inch hole and back out without touching the sides precision. A guy who knows what he's doing practices this precision in all movements and strives for consistency. Now if you can do all this and call it "easy", then there must not be much in the martial arts that is capable of challenging you, because you can take the same principles and use them to grapple, strike, throw, and evade your opponent. Really the basic principles of the bo apply not only to most all weapons, but they apply to empty hand technique as well. I mean if you can move a bo like that, what makes an opponents arm, leg, or body any different then that bo? Not much.

I apologize about sounding a bit passionate but the bo is at the very least tied for first in the list of my favorite kobudo weapons. The eku is just plain too much fun though.

-Paul Holsinger

 

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

Oh my god! I can't believe how many weapons kata there are in some dojos. We have some, but definately not that many. I just couldn't remember them all. Right now, I'm working on about 3-4 katas and I'm confused a little. I could only imagine if I had to learn all those katas...it'd take me forever!

:btg: :jediduel:

 

[Sandifer]

Originally posted by Akashiro Tamaya



snip;
One of my favorite Bo kata is Suishinokon (sp?). ...]


It happens that I am in the process of researching the correlations (or non-correlations) of the following bo kata, one of which you mentioned. Soeishi no Kon, Shuji no Kon, and Shushi no Kon.

There could be a couple possible spellings for the kata you refer to. All three kata are perhaps different. Soeishi (named after Soeishi Udun a feudal lord who was expert with in bo), Shushi another possible person who passed on his bo techniques personally or through someone else (one source says Soeishi himself might have. Another more credible source says Shushi was developed by Yamane no Chinen). The third possible spelling is Shuji.

One of my sources indicates Shuji (Suji) and Shushi maybe different phonetic renderings of the same kata sets as well as Soeishi and Shushi. Other sources indicates all three are different unconnected kata all together.

I train within both the Matayoshi and the Ryukyu Kobudo lineages. Each are separate and have there own similar and differing methods of weapon use. (Many of you folks probably already know this)

Any further information on the above kata or refernces to books, etc. describing the history, foundering father, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I am particularly interested in observing the Soeishi no Kon (Sho, Dai, etc.) kata set from any lineage. As well as any of the above kata sets as passed down in particular through the Shobayashi and/or Kobayashi Shorin Ryu lineages. Thanks in advance.


Sandifer M. Deer

 

[Sandifer]

Originally posted by Sauzin
So I know I'm new here but let me give a shot at describing the oar or eku.

snip...
[The eku traditionally is made out of red oak, stands just a bit shorter then a 6' bo. The paddle has a rigged side and a curved side which is key to performing an eku kata correctly. You've got to know which side is facing what at all times. This is generally obtained through a good feel for the weapon and the grip. The most common grip is with both hands palm down over the handle. ]


In the ten+ years I have trained with the Eku (also eiku, iyeku, kai), I have never honestly heard both palms down is the most common grip. In fact, of the three ieku kata I am most familiar with only one (Tsuken) is practiced palms down.

[Many eku kata also contain a unique move called "flinging coal" where the paddle end is plunged downward and then kicked or levered back up.]

We call this movement Sunakake. Literally, sand hook or sand throw. It is also used very often in bo waza.


[The kata I am most familiar with is "Suken ackacho no eku de bo" (I'm sure I didn't spell it right, that is largely phonetic)]

Tsuken Aka Chu no iyeku de is the correct spelling.


[but it refers to a guy who was known as a red haired pirate.]


If there more to this legend I am interested in hearing it? Please.


It is noted that this kata maybe as old as 600yrs.

 

[Shinzu]

i would have to say the nunchaku also. it has been my favorite from when i first started karate. i am fond of the staff also

 

[Sauzin]

Hello Sandifer,

Thank-you for the spelling correction.

Tsuken Aka Chu no iyeku de is also the only iyeku kata that Odo taught, which is currently why it is the only one I practice. This is also why I know the palms down grip as the most common grip for this weapon. I have run through (though not committed to memory) 2 other iyeku kata that my sensei practices and you are correct, the palms down grip is much less common in these (less rowing), though it does exist. I would certainly say that the grip is far more common overall in usage with the iyeku then with the bo. I mean it's an oar, how else are you to row?

I will ask for more origin details of my sensei, Dean Stevens. He is very meticulous about kata origin. I heard it was very old as well.

Thank-you for the additional information and the critique.
:asian:

-Paul Holsinger

 

[Sandifer]

I believe it is actually used more as I rudder then in a rowing fashion in the water.

Any further information would be great.

I practice a lot with the oar and bo. One oar kata I work alot is called Itomen Kawa no Eku (Itomen=town, Kawa=river area). The other which I am refreshing is Shorinkan no Eku. A kata devised by Shigeru Nakazato of the Kobayashi Shorin Ryu branch I believe. This particular kata utilizes some double palm down rowing type movements at the beginning of the kata and several Gyaku (tail) chudan uke/kamae.

Bo however is my most familiar weapon. (Though I like eku more). The bo has a flow to it that the Eku by nature just cannot compete with in my opinion. I have a couple excelent bo vs. eku and sword vs Eku yakusoku that are a blast when two people know them well. Great for demos.

 

[Sauzin]

I believe it is actually used more as I rudder then in a rowing fashion in the water.

Uh, I'm not sure about that one. It would be difficult to explain the ridged side vs the curved side if that were the case. A rudder would need to be omni directional, however the eku is designed to row and cut water in one direction.

Anyway, I'm sure there have been design changes as it has been applied to martial arts. I know for a fact that the original Shureido Eku was only about 4 feet tall and looked a lot different. But that was about 30 years ago or so. Still it too had a ridged side and a curved side.

I would be interested to see your eku vs bo and sword routines. Do you have any pictures?

We'll have to wait till Friday for further info on Tsuken. I won't see my Sensei 'till then.

Thanks again,

-Paul Holsinger

 

[gojukylie]

I love the Bo and the Sai. I cannot single one of them out. I tell you what though, the Bo will work your arms, shoulders & abs just nicely. Good fun.

 

[Sandifer]

One of my Kohai is a wood worker. He has been developing his skills as a wooden weapon smith as an aside for other students. He suggested somethng about the design of the eku as he just made his second one. His suggestion being that he thought the eku as we have always seen and relate to them are made to represent one in a worn condition. So that over time it would go from having two beveled sides to one being rounded one being beveled if the fisherman of old Okinawa favored the use of one side for certain things.

I've been rethinking about the idea of the Ieku being used primarily as a rudder and that wouldn't make sense unless one were always going down stream on a river. It does make more sense that the Ieku would be used for locomotion more than steering. However, the rounded side may have developed from the coarsing of sea water when applying directional resistance inorder to guide or slow a boat. Over time the ieku would naturally round like an agate.

One thing though is that it seems to me that the oar is a bit narrow to be used as a paddle mainly. Any suggestions about that?

Sandifer M. Deer

ps. Sauzin PM me if you would like printed copy of the eku tai sword yakusoku. The eku tai bo I'll have to type up. Unfortunately I don't have pictures.