What is "American Ninjutsu"

Discussion in 'American Ninjutsu' started by Bob Hubbard, Nov 7, 2004.

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  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    American Ninjutsu - Forum Charter

    "Although its roots are founded in rich Japanese tradition, history, and culture, American Ninjutsu has evolved into a unique marital art. Over 20 years ago certain men, having trained in Japan, brought their training experience to back to America. These men pioneered a concept that revolutionized how the American people viewed Japanese culture. The concept they shared was the art of the ninja. These men established ninjutsu schools, assimilating their acquired knowledge into their own unique interpretation of ninjutsu. Referred to as American Ninjustu, similar to its predecessor from Japan, it has evolved to accommodate the culture and needs of 21st Century America.

    American Ninjutsu is not restricted by a few set “kata,” but a comprehensive art form in and of itself. It embodies a variety of martial arts technique including: taijutsu (unarmed combat), kenjutsu, shurikenjutsu, metsubishi, koppojustu, stealth, bojutsu, evasion, war tactics, combat strategy, and invisibility. Not bound by traditionalism, it allows the integration of current methodologies, technique, and weaponry that are applicable to the perils of modern day society.

    American Ninjutsu is recognized as having proof of an American founder with legitimate ninjutsu training. The schools currently recognized globally as teaching American Ninjutsu are: To-Shin Do (SKH Quest Centers), Rick Tew’s Martial Science (Tew Ryu Ninjutsu), and RBWI (Robert Bussey’s schools and affiliated students). Any other school claiming to teach American Ninjutsu can show their qualifications as stated above
    ."

    This charter outlines the rough direction of this forum. It will grow and change as you our members guide this sections continued direction.
     
  2. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    To Shin Do is one thing, but Tew and Bussey???

    Also I wouldn't say that "traditional ninjutsu" is "bound" by traditionalism, although that's a different matter altogether.
     
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  3. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    This "Charter" if you will is like all of them here, open to evolution as things progress. We had to start somewhere.

    Our goals with this section are multiple.
    - To give those individuals who study the non-Japanese versions, spin offs and adaptations a place to discuss without the fear of being bound by "Traditional" limitations.
    - To prevent the continued disruption of the forums by the non-stop traditional/modern warfare
    - To expand the services offered by MT to the martial arts community as a whole.


    If the posted charter is inadequate, we are open to modification. Please use this thread to discuss and debate those modifications.

    :asian:
     
  4. Moko

    Moko Yellow Belt

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    Where were you when Kerry needed some speeches written? That is a very, very politically correct and kind and polite charter.

    I think one defining factor between the To-Shin So system is Hayes Shihan has spent some documentable time studying an authentic ninjutsu system. It is open to discussion how much ninjutsu he was taught and there can be still more discussion on how much he retained.

    But the bottom line for Hayes Shihan is; He was there and he can have an interpretation based on his experiences.

    I feel safe saying Tew and Bussey have more knowledge of hair care products than ninjutsu.

    So if you are looking for a delineating factor between True "American Ninjutsu" and posuers, I think verifiable, long term experience is needed. Otherwise you open the doors for any kid who's competent with a keyboard and camera to start his own "American Ninjutsu" style and this would just degrade the reputation of those who actually CAN make that claim. And there are some true spank-meisters out there. Seeing an "American Ninjutsu" Soke who is maybe, MAYBE twenty, describe how you can block a sword cut with a saya on his forearm, (Think Upper Block for you TKD and Karate types with the scabbard lying on the forearm.) is asking for dismemberment. Saya are thin wood paper and lacquer. And it's not the first cut that would kill him. But the next one...or the one after that. That's "American NInjutsu" But of a wholly different calibre than what anyone with two operating brain cells would want to be associated with.

    I think another delineating factor may be language and weapons. If they use Japanese and the traditional Ningu, Hanbo, Ken, tachi, yari et al or the other set of "traditional" weapons, Nunchucks, sai, tonfa, (teehee) then the art is trying to be traditional. If the "American Ninjutsu" art is trying to use non-traditional japanese weapons, say a vacuum cleaner, then there is an attempt for it to be non-traditional.

    Otherwise the instructors are just venal at worst, mercantile at best and trying to cash in on the '80's ninjer craze.

    So perhaps a list of qualifications with points awarded for each item. So, sticking with the vacuum cleaner act; a school that teaches vacuum cleaner jutsu award some points for the vacuum cleaner but take away point for calling it Vacuum Cleaner no Kata. Full marks for Vacumm Cleaner Dance or Form. As this is not in traditional Japanese ninjutsu. (That I know of, Hehehehe) this would be OK. I guess. From what I have seen training with you Yanks, y'all like your guns. Long arms and pistols. So, that should factor in heavy. Yes, it's in Budo also, but it should be treated differently by y'all. (I say that with Love in my voice and an longing for my FN back. I'm sooo jealous of y'all. No, I don't need an FN but....)

    One other point, calling it "American Ninjustu" takes out the Nindo ryu, which is a traditional Puerto Rican Ninja style, Uh huh, and there's a goofy guy called Juan Hombre who's a spanish Ninja, a bunch of crackheads Down-under who believe theirs is a Singapura style of Ninjutsu, some Dr. in Italy who's sword work is amazing but his photos are really cool, and on and on the parade goes. So, this nonclemature of "American Ninjutsu" seems limiting. Do you WANT to include these nutbars or restrict them? Personnally, if I were training with some fraud I would not want to be associated with the above frauds. Truly.

    Perhaps first defining Traditional Ninjutsu, (Good Luck), then define "American Ninjutsu using that as a datum.

    So those are my thoughts intersperesed with some humour despite the late hour. Hope that it helps and if it doesn't, it inspires intelligent discourse.
     
  5. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    2 short points (as I'm also supposed to be well, more unconcious than I am now.) :)

    As much as I'd like to claim credit for polite writing, the charter as posted was writen by this forums moderator after a phone discussion we had a few days ago.

    You've raised some valid points which I hope we can examine and resolve.


    Oh, the "Traditional Definition" as we use in that forum is the strict verifiable Japanese lineage, currently tracing through Hatsumi. It is also open to future expansion based on new information.
     
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  6. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Before I start, I'd like to say that I'm far from an authority on Ninjutsu. That being said, I'd like to have a pleasant discussion, rather than a flame war.

    Regarding Hayes, Bussey, etc. and the term "American". I was under the impression that Bussey did spend time in Japan as well as doing some training with Hayes. It seems to me that the "American Ninjutsu" term was coined by Bussey when he came back to the states. Comparing his thoughts, beliefs, teachings, etc. to someone like Hayes, it seems that Bussey modified what he learned to better suit the person living in todays world, compared to what it was like in Japan back in the day.

    It also seems that Hayes himself made some changes with what he teaches.

    Mike
     
  7. Michael Billings

    Michael Billings Senior Master

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    Bob or Mike,

    Correct me here if I am wrong, but after months of going over this in the Moderators Forums and the Steering Forum, I want to respond:

    But that is not up for debate per se. Rather the forum is to split off those "protesting" American/Neo/Modern Ninjitsu.

    Once again, this is an issue on any forum, not just Ninjitsu. The "he said, she said," or "my instructor is better than yours" is common throughout all the arts. Respectfully, you are expressing an OPINION, and that will not get them or their student's opinions limited or removed from the new forum.

    Now that is plain silly! What you call a weapon will not decide which catagory you are in, or all the traditionalist who like to challenge Modern/American will be over there and the same old same old arguements continue. We are trying to get away from this and allow space for both parties to dialogue re: their own Arts, not challenge others. "MartialTalk - FRIENDLY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MARTIAL ARTS" (it says it right on our logo).

    (NOTE: ... I left out the sarcasm in the last sentence). I actually think what you posted until then makes good sense and we need to be inclusive of that group ... if they are represented here on this board.

    This is the Mod/Admin Teams attempt to reduce the amount of friction between the two forums. You would think having separate forums would have worked, but the outrageous alleged "fraud busting", or "you are stepping in my puddle" continues to give the Mods fits. I am ready to create a heavily moderated forum and lock any thread where one of the other's steps in ... but I was out voted so Bob is attempting to help resolve the issues with newly created forums and redefining the parameters. Give it a shot and post or PM Seig with suggestions, if they are serious and worth consideration.

    In the meantime, try to play nice.

    -Michael Billings
    MT Super-Moderator
     
  8. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    If you are going to stick with the guidelines Kaith put up in his first post in this sticky, Tew and Bussey needs to go. Also, you need to do a check-up on what the term ninjutsu means. I'd say the most accurate version of American "ninjutsu" you can find is what CIA/NSA etc. are dealing with nowadays.
     
  9. Bujingodai

    Bujingodai Brown Belt

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    Nimravus, OK so you could be happy that we are no longer in the Japanese forum, now I think you would be happy with a forum called Wannabe Ninjers or something degrading. Is Toshindo is the only legit offbreak, then should there not just be a Toshindo forum?

    This is all getting a little silly isn't it.
     
  10. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Don't tell me you've never heard of things like Mu Te Jinen ryu Goshinjutsu, Brian McCarthy, Wayne L Roy's own style, Ryu San Ryu and the like (none of which are American though, but they're what I could think of right now - never said there aren't any more Bujinkan offshoots though)?
     
  11. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i have to agree with that point.

    if everyone would read this charter carefully you will see that there is room to grow. if the style was not founded by an american then i'm sure that general ninjutsu(in the japanese section) might be able to accomadate them.

    the fact of the japanese folk stepping in here just to try and set the recored straight, is proof of what was causing all the original flame wars in the first place.

    i plan to keep a close eye on every post that comes in here. if you should be posting in japanese ninjutsu... then thats where you should post.

    thanks in advance for playing nice.

    peace
    -mt moderator-
     
  12. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    then they should go with the japanese ninjutsu... i'm sure there is room over there. this is for "american" ninjutsu styles... hence the name. "AN".

    its all on what the american founder claims. there could be an american shihan teaching buj,gen,jen... etc. they claim to teach ninjutsu as taught in japan. the schools currently aknowledged here are claiming to teach ninjutsu for the american people/culture.

    peace
     
  13. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Tew and Bussey do not have this.

    Like I said, the boys over at Langley are more qualified to do that than Rick Tew or Robert Bussey.
     
  14. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    mod note:
    your attempts to "fraud bust" have no place here. you can find any information you need about tew and bussey's training using the search function on this site.

    -mt moderator-
     
  15. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    Well, the definition for American ninjutsu has been posted and possibly may be altered as this thing gets going. We should NOT have to define American Ninjutsu based on what Japanese tradition or practitioners have to say about it. They should worry about their own art!
     
  16. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    This is completely silly! This proves that some of the Japanese ninjutsu practitioners on MT are only out to cause problems with their elitist mentality. This was split do basically get away from all this mess. Why do they care what we do? Go back to your forum for gosh sakes!
     
  17. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    If they do not have an American founder they don't belong here. How hard is that to understand?
     
  18. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    Nimravus, this forum doesn't concern you. Who has been considered as AN is an administration issue.
     
  19. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Poor choices of examples, I'll admit that. My point was that there are more Bujinkan offshoots than To Shin Do.

    Yes, even in America.
     
  20. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    I will, as of right now, but I don't practice ninjutsu.
     
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