What formative experiences drove which training changes & adaptations?

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

If we define "formative experience" for the sake of this conversation as a time you got unexpectedly tooled, what happened, and how -- if at all -- have you modified your approach to training because of it?

Example: There's a story of Bruce Lee getting dumped all over the Green Hornet set by Gene LaBelle. Rather than simply kvetch, BL took on the study of grappling and added it to JKD/JunFan.

Personally, I remember a brawl I got into as a bouncer in which, with excellent form (if I do say so myself), proper execution, and appropriate mechanics of motion, I laid into an aggresssor on counter-attack, hitting him many times as hard as I could, only to make him madder (side note...I weighed 180 slim at 6'4", he close to 300 & beefy). This was not the first time I had to use my skills in my job, but it was the first time they didn't drop the other guy. This gentleman was a salty old NCAA wrestler, Olympic Judo trainer, and hard-core kick-boxer from the Urquidez glory days, and had a history of training much harder (read "with more intensity and harder contact") as a wrestler and kick-boxer than I was accustomed to.

Spooked me that I could thwack someone and have anything in the universe happen other than them falling down, so I took to strength training and the heavy-bag (to weigh more, & hit harder), Thai boxing (to get used to being hit, trading blows in a clinch, and thicken my skin a bit with that training genre), and the purposeful academic study and Kenpo application of the generation of power in athletic activities (biomechanics of power movements and ballistic motions of the upper and lower extremities; applications of plyometric theory to specific physical activities, etc.). Subsequently, I weigh from 225 to 240 (depending on diet, training regimen & water intake), hit much harder, and now neurotically obsess about a whole slew of entirely different issues.

My formative experience was making a large man angry with moves that should have stopped him, and the "oh, no" flush that follows, with the training adaptation being the addition of resistance training and study of "complementary electives".

So that others might learn from our mistakes and/or the experiences that have shaped us, do any of all y'all have some formative experiences that drove training adaptations which have significantly changed the way you train, or express your training? What are the adaptations or personal evolutions & insights, and how might a reader expect to benefit from them? (Yes, I know the above means I got my butt kicked...please, let's try to stay genuine and edifying during the self-disclosure of our responses).

Sincerely,

Dr. Dave, DC

 

[8253]

Most Martial Arts teach flexability in your techniques. For example such as taking on a bigger person that will not drop no matter what you seem to do, there will always be an alternate solution. For example if you hit him in the mouth 20 times and it does nothing, try taking out his knee simple yet effective. or maybe just a light tap to the throat. maybe not the most powerfull strike but very effective. Changing up techniques and substituting moves can be a very effective way of training. size dosent matter as much as how you use it. Then again sometimes it just aint that way

 

[Rainman]

If we define "formative experience" for the sake of this conversation as a time you got unexpectedly tooled, what happened, and how -- if at all -- have you modified your approach to training because of it?

Example: There's a story of Bruce Lee getting dumped all over the Green Hornet set by Gene LaBelle. Rather than simply kvetch, BL took on the study of grappling and added it to JKD/JunFan.

Personally, I remember a brawl I got into as a bouncer in which, with excellent form (if I do say so myself), proper execution, and appropriate mechanics of motion, I laid into an aggresssor on counter-attack, hitting him many times as hard as I could, only to make him madder (side note...I weighed 180 slim at 6'4", he close to 300 & beefy). This was not the first time I had to use my skills in my job, but it was the first time they didn't drop the other guy. This gentleman was a salty old NCAA wrestler, Olympic Judo trainer, and hard-core kick-boxer from the Urquidez glory days, and had a history of training much harder (read "with more intensity and harder contact") as a wrestler and kick-boxer than I was accustomed to.

Spooked me that I could thwack someone and have anything in the universe happen other than them falling down, so I took to strength training and the heavy-bag (to weigh more, & hit harder), Thai boxing (to get used to being hit, trading blows in a clinch, and thicken my skin a bit with that training genre), and the purposeful academic study and Kenpo application of the generation of power in athletic activities (biomechanics of power movements and ballistic motions of the upper and lower extremities; applications of plyometric theory to specific physical activities, etc.). Subsequently, I weigh from 225 to 240 (depending on diet, training regimen & water intake), hit much harder, and now neurotically obsess about a whole slew of entirely different issues.

My formative experience was making a large man angry with moves that should have stopped him, and the "oh, no" flush that follows, with the training adaptation being the addition of resistance training and study of "complementary electives".

So that others might learn from our mistakes and/or the experiences that have shaped us, do any of all y'all have some formative experiences that drove training adaptations which have significantly changed the way you train, or express your training? What are the adaptations or personal evolutions & insights, and how might a reader expect to benefit from them? (Yes, I know the above means I got my butt kicked...please, let's try to stay genuine and edifying during the self-disclosure of our responses).

Sincerely,

Dr. Dave, DC

Yep definitely had a few of those experiences. Hoped in the ring with muy thai teacher and learned the value of the front stiff legged thrusting ball kick. Took me about 15 minutes to understand how to use it, defend against it and how fast and powerful it really is. An excellent addition to my arnsenal. It was already in the AK system but reversed. It is valuable to see someone who has mastered a particular weapon and get insight from them.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Come on, y'all. You really can't be so naive as to believe that your straight kenpo training has or will prepare you for any and all possibilities. I can't believe there are so many out there teaching combat skills, who have never been in a real fight? I want to learn knife fighting from a guy with scars on his forearms! If you have been in enough real fights, then you'll have learned that theory breaks down under chaos! And if you learned that, then there are some things you have done in your own life to prepare for the inevitable moment when things do not go according to plan!

When I hear someone say "just tap him on the jaw with a palm heel, and you jam the joint, jar the fluid in the inner ear, and knock him out", I know they have never seen someone take a Galliano bottle swung lika a ball-bat to the chin and keep fighting. Trying to place "7 pounds to the knee" under a dogpile of gang-bangers is much easier said than done. "Finger-whip to the groin" when the guy has a bat with nails sticking out of it...I hope you get the point. Have none of the esteemed practitioners ever had their nettle tested? Was it all you hoped it would be? Was it easier than you anticipated?

I walked into a Kenpo school on sparring night, and a championship black belt sparring team were all donning gear with black eyes and fat lips. I asked what happened, thinking, surely, they must have been grossly outnumbered. THEY WEREN'T. Equally matched with the same number of guys at a block party, they traded shots and took as good as they got. Anybody see something wrong in this picture? If you haven't had your hair set on fire in an ugly brawl, more power to you...you're living the Way it's meant to be lived. But if you have, be honest. What happened?

Proposition: You learn more from your losses than from your victories. Thoughts?

 

[Zoran]

Come on, y'all. You really can't be so naive as to believe that your straight kenpo training has or will prepare you for any and all possibilities.

There is no training that will prepare you for it all.

I can't believe there are so many out there teaching combat skills, who have never been in a real fight?

There are plenty that have. I was also a bouncer for over 10 years. I've also modified my training from experience. Although I don't have one particular example that drastically changed my views. But when I first started bouncing, I was under the incorrect assumptions that joint lock and pain control techs would be all I need. Until I ran into someone who didn't know what pain was (I think I broke his wrist and it just pissed him off). Fortunantly I didn't panick and changed to a rear choke for control. From there on I worked on perfecting my ability to place and manipulate someone from that position. You may not feel pain, but you still have to breath.

You learn more from your losses than from your victories. Thoughts?

That is if you survive. I would say real life experience will give you some of the most important lessons that you will learn. This includes combat as well as life in general.

I want to learn knife fighting from a guy with scars on his forearms!

After your done, send him my way.

 

[Kenpomachine]

AS I haven't been in a fight for many years (it was at school, with another girl), I can tell you that one of the most formative experience for me was having to stay away from kenpo for a while (6 months). In this situation, I enrolled in a TKD class. Also, due to having to go up and down a truck everyday tens of times, I developed more strenght in my legs. When I finally was able to join kenpo again, I felt very fresh and could get the material easily.

So that was my turning point, in regards to realizing that I have to train not only kenpo, but keeping fit with aerobic work and also explosive work. This kind of work out has always been hard to do for me, as it bores me to death :S