What do you know I am old

[kwaichang]

:barf:

 

[Deaf Smith]

Just got back from class.

Spend the morning with my wife looking at antique stores, spending a bunch on a marble statute she wanted. After lunch I went to the indoor gun range at 1:30 and practiced with my Glock 26 and Smith 640 till 3 PM (I reload so I have lots of ammo!)

I then went to the class early, at 3:15. Worked out on high kicks till 4 PM, class time. We concentrated, to my suprise, on kicks today! Did lots of streaching and kicking till 5 PM.

I WILL PAY FOR THAT TONIGHT. That's ok, I just had a beer to kill the pain and we will watch "Fools Gold" tonight. But I bet I hurt at 2 AM.

But look at it this way... Tomorrow is another day! I'll go to the gym tomorrow and do hand techniques and avoid kicking.

Everything is fine.

Deaf

 

[kidswarrior]

:barf:

??????????????? What am I missing?

 

[geezer]

But at least it is better than the alternative

I guess this post is geared more towards those over 40...

Me thinkest my body is trying to tell me I need at least 2 days off a week :duh: and I think I am going to listen.

So has any one else found this to be true as you age and how has it effected your train?

Well, I read through most of the posts and it seems like most of what needs to be said already has been said, but here's my two cents. I'm turning 53 next week and, like you I'm finding staying in shape to be more of a b**** every day. In my case it may be worse since I'm coming back after a long lay-off. And, like you, I'm noting a couple of big changes:

1. It's easy to overtrain. Not only do I injure more easily, heal much more slowly, but I just plain make less progress if I push too hard. Nowdays, I find that I progress more steadily if I take off at least two days between hard workouts. And, physical progress is still slow. The plateaus are longer, and injuries and setbacks more frequent.

2. With age, my will power seems stronger. If progress were this hard when I was twenty, I'd have given up and become a life-long couch potato.

3. Pick and choose your battles. Rather than attempt the impossible or unsafe, build on your strengths. I do Wing Tsun and Escrima, so I don't have to do high kicks. But the impact damage from stickfighting seems more of a problem. I have persistent knuckle and wrist pain that has not diminished in 8 months. I'm told it is probably permanent. So I'm avoiding bare handed stickfighting and (after going through open knee surgery) I don't do knee-locks and certain leg attacks in Wing Tsun. Instead, I plan to focus on technique and strategy in both arts and make my WT chi-sau as refined as possible.

4. And last, but not least, every now and then, Beat up a punk kid half your age. Trust me, you'll feel a lot better!

 

[kidswarrior]

Well said, Geezer. :asian: Your last point I've found especially therapeutic. :lol:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey Xue Sheng I may not be the little old sifu with the aged gait and the glinting eye, and but I have been studying people in the arts for a time. And it would please me if you would allow me to give you my take.. I think that aging our way through the arts does not imply a tapering off of training, but rather a subtle change in the balance. I have, like everyone here, had the privelege of tuition from some, frankly phenomenal teachers who were more advanced in years (and def. older than anyone on here). Through their mannerisms, I have come to consider our aging through the arts to be akin to a kind of "slider". At the low end lies physical pursuit and at the high end, mental pursuit. I see us as we begin on our MA journey, set near to 100% physical methods with little mental faculty. As we age, our slider moves automatically and we tend towards greater mental acuity while USING less physical effort(through practise and muscle memories), or while REQUIRING less physical effort (through greater efficiency), or while simply being UNABLE TO GIVE as much physical effort (because of cumulative reductions in muscle mass, joint strength, endurance or greater rec. time needed). I do not know if that is just nonsense maybe and but I think aging through our art is simply reflected in this change of focus or moving of the slider.

Of course Xue, you can MANUALLY set your slider BACK to a place closer to the physical end than it might naturally sit. If you can keep it there, you can successfully "reset" the system (and but you might have to hold it or glue it there! ) Otherwise, nature and physiology will reset the adjustment you made. Does that make any sense? Prolly not. And apologies if that is all a big dumb irrelevance. And but maybe there is a chance that my analogy it is something to think on? Me I simply hold in higher esteem those who I have trained under and who have matured in their art and know where they fit within it, than I do those of lesser years who present a disposition of immortality.

If I am still fortunate enough to be here at 40 and have accumulated even a fraction of the martial adroitness and wisdom that some of you MT guys have when I step up to that carriage of my MA train, then I will consider myself more than fortunate

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

It made a lot of sense actually, thanks

I once had an SP (State LEO - Lieutenant) tell me much the same thing a few years back when we were talking about MA and arrests of much younger individuals as one ages in the LEO profession. But at the time he was 49 and I was 30 years old so although it was not lost on me it certainly did not hit as close to home then

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, I read through most of the posts and it seems like most of what needs to be said already has been said, but here's my two cents. I'm turning 53 next week and, like you I'm finding staying in shape to be more of a b**** every day. In my case it may be worse since I'm coming back after a long lay-off. And, like you, I'm noting a couple of big changes:

It can be a bit of a shock can't it?

1. It's easy to overtrain. Not only do I injure more easily, heal much more slowly, but I just plain make less progress if I push too hard. Nowdays, I find that I progress more steadily if I take off at least two days between hard workouts. And, physical progress is still slow. The plateaus are longer, and injuries and setbacks more frequent.

This is sounding familiar but the injury part I am trying to avoid, I have had a few nasty ones in my youth and I REALLY do not want to go through those again.

2. With age, my will power seems stronger. If progress were this hard when I was twenty, I'd have given up and become a life-long couch potato.

I had not thought of that but I do believe you are on to something here and I like it, thanks

3. Pick and choose your battles. Rather than attempt the impossible or unsafe, build on your strengths. I do Wing Tsun and Escrima, so I don't have to do high kicks. But the impact damage from stickfighting seems more of a problem. I have persistent knuckle and wrist pain that has not diminished in 8 months. I'm told it is probably permanent. So I'm avoiding bare handed stickfighting and (after going through open knee surgery) I don't do knee-locks and certain leg attacks in Wing Tsun. Instead, I plan to focus on technique and strategy in both arts and make my WT chi-sau as refined as possible.

I am doing just that actually but I have one more test for myself I just HAVE to give a go at first. But I am not being crazy about it here, this is much of the reason for the workout I now do. If I survive it and feel better because of it I will give it a go. If I do not feel better then unlike the past I think I will listen to what I am trying to tell me for a change and focus elsewhere

4. And last, but not least, every now and then, Beat up a punk kid half your age. Trust me, you'll feel a lot better!

:lfao:

OK after I recovered from the laughing the first thought I had was

"Hmmm my Sanda sifu is younger than me" :anic:

But then with a great sigh of relief I realized that he is only 1 year younger than I and most certainly not a punk kid so I guess I have successfully avoided that beat down I would have received, DAMN I am getting smarter with age

 

[diamondbar1971]

as we get older we have to learn to adapt and all of those really hard and long workouts

 

[diamondbar1971]

boy, that one went off into the phantom zone. as we get older we adapt to it and the long and hard and sometimes painful workouts will now pay off. as i approach the big 60 i realize that i can still take care of business, but would do it smarter and much quicker that i would have 30 years ago. some joints get stiff and sore sometimes and yes i am now paying for the fun i had when i was much younger, would i do it all over again, you bet and so would most of you on this site.

 

[kwaichang]

Indeed.

 

[Big Don]

I don't think that was mentioned in the manual.

You got a manual?!

 

[Jenna]

It made a lot of sense actually, thanks

I once had an SP (State LEO - Lieutenant) tell me much the same thing a few years back when we were talking about MA and arrests of much younger individuals as one ages in the LEO profession. But at the time he was 49 and I was 30 years old so although it was not lost on me it certainly did not hit as close to home then

Hey Xue Sheng thank you for your courtesy to me. You, and most of my elders on here are too learned for me to offer any wisdom to. And but I would like to say one more thing if I am not being impudent and that might explain why I spoke at all out of turn and then I shall reverse out of your thread..

My dad (at 62 he is lot older than you guys plainly). He owned a garage by day and ran a boxing gym pretty much every other time and was even there sometimes he should have been working.. Last year he took a stroke. He never was a big nor a lazy man who might be the obvious candidate for stroke's destructive hand, always very fit (boxers are I believe one of the fittest of all the martial artists). This was to him and us all, a major major shock, and but doc said fitness levels are irrelevant to stroke. Anyways.. digression. My dad I have to help him just to walk to the end of the garden on his tripod. Thing is though. He will not stop going down the gym. And the stupid thing is, and I cannot tell him to stop, he STILL keeps training the younger guys and he cannot even walk properly. His second holds him and he demonstrates with his good arm and occasionally loses his balance too! He is a silly old beggar and but my dad, so I love him. I had a 15 yr old "punk" as is the parlance I have seen upthread. He spoke to me last week waiting outside to drive my dad home. This youngster (petty criminal he was when he came to the gym six odd months ago, was on community service for doing a stabbing when he showed up at first) and anyways, he comes over to me in the yard and I lock my door. And but he asks me to wind down the window. And he says, your dad, can I have him for my own dad? And which I thought was sweet. He says, your dad has shown me more about being a man than anyone ever did. He says, I would be too afraid to tell him myself. And I never thought of what he had said until later. He said that my dad had SHOWED him about being a man. My dad, this man in two halfs as he is now, and who can not walk the length of himself, still SHOWED this kid, did not tell him like a teacher standing at front of class, but SHOWED him.

And so, yes I know my dad has no place in the thread. Stroke is in no ways the same as the OP topic and but just by way of analogy I mention my dad and because I love him. By all that, I only mean one thing and I was trying to explain earlier, though my analogy may have been a little queer... I do not think as we age, we need to stop DOING MA or even think of stopping. Nothing has to end. Maybe a little modification needs to happen! As the engine ages, I tweak the ECU accordingly. A Ferrari is still a Ferrari...

In my observation I believe as we age through our art we should simply check our slider position, warm up, train a little and then validate that slider position. If it is set right, then go to the max training that the setting allows. If not, readjust and go again. Prudence.

I am sorry for the long post. I felt compelled. I just do not like it when good people get held up by leaves on the tracks when I have a brush and I can maybe sweep them off

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[kidswarrior]

Hey Xue Sheng thank you for your courtesy to me. You, and most of my elders on here are too learned for me to offer any wisdom to. And but I would like to say one more thing if I am not being impudent and that might explain why I spoke at all out of turn and then I shall reverse out of your thread..

My dad (at 62 he is lot older than you guys plainly). He owned a garage by day and ran a boxing gym pretty much every other time and was even there sometimes he should have been working.. Last year he took a stroke. He never was a big nor a lazy man who might be the obvious candidate for stroke's destructive hand, always very fit (boxers are I believe one of the fittest of all the martial artists). This was to him and us all, a major major shock, and but doc said fitness levels are irrelevant to stroke. Anyways.. digression. My dad I have to help him just to walk to the end of the garden on his tripod. Thing is though. He will not stop going down the gym. And the stupid thing is, and I cannot tell him to stop, he STILL keeps training the younger guys and he cannot even walk properly. His second holds him and he demonstrates with his good arm and occasionally loses his balance too! He is a silly old beggar and but my dad, so I love him. I had a 15 yr old "punk" as is the parlance I have seen upthread. He spoke to me last week waiting outside to drive my dad home. This youngster (petty criminal he was when he came to the gym six odd months ago, was on community service for doing a stabbing when he showed up at first) and anyways, he comes over to me in the yard and I lock my door. And but he asks me to wind down the window. And he says, your dad, can I have him for my own dad? And which I thought was sweet. He says, your dad has shown me more about being a man than anyone ever did. He says, I would be too afraid to tell him myself. And I never thought of what he had said until later. He said that my dad had SHOWED him about being a man. My dad, this man in two halfs as he is now, and who can not walk the length of himself, still SHOWED this kid, did not tell him like a teacher standing at front of class, but SHOWED him.

Beautiful story, and so sorry to hear about your dad.

And so, yes I know my dad has no place in the thread.

I think Xue Sheng and the others will agree, both you and your dad are welcome here.

Stroke is in no ways the same as the OP topic and but just by way of analogy I mention my dad and because I love him. By all that, I only mean one thing and I was trying to explain earlier, though my analogy may have been a little queer... I do not think as we age, we need to stop DOING MA or even think of stopping. Nothing has to end. Maybe a little modification needs to happen! As the engine ages, I tweak the ECU accordingly. A Ferrari is still a Ferrari...

Oh boy. X S, I sure hope you post pictures of yourself before and after the ECU is tweaked. I expect it to look like this:

In my observation I believe as we age through our art we should simply check our slider position, warm up, train a little and then validate that slider position. If it is set right, then go to the max training that the setting allows. If not, readjust and go again. Prudence.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna[/quote]Thanks, Jenna, for taking a risk and sharing for the benefit of us old timers. Especially Xue Sheng (even if my own odometer rolled over today :lol.

 

[Jenna]

(even if my own odometer rolled over today :lol.

Hey I did not know! Happy happy happy happy happy birthday to you, have a happy day today

I will plant a little seed for you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey Xue Sheng thank you for your courtesy to me. You, and most of my elders on here are too learned for me to offer any wisdom to. And but I would like to say one more thing if I am not being impudent and that might explain why I spoke at all out of turn and then I shall reverse out of your thread..

My dad (at 62 he is lot older than you guys plainly). He owned a garage by day and ran a boxing gym pretty much every other time and was even there sometimes he should have been working.. Last year he took a stroke. He never was a big nor a lazy man who might be the obvious candidate for stroke's destructive hand, always very fit (boxers are I believe one of the fittest of all the martial artists). This was to him and us all, a major major shock, and but doc said fitness levels are irrelevant to stroke. Anyways.. digression. My dad I have to help him just to walk to the end of the garden on his tripod. Thing is though. He will not stop going down the gym. And the stupid thing is, and I cannot tell him to stop, he STILL keeps training the younger guys and he cannot even walk properly. His second holds him and he demonstrates with his good arm and occasionally loses his balance too! He is a silly old beggar and but my dad, so I love him. I had a 15 yr old "punk" as is the parlance I have seen upthread. He spoke to me last week waiting outside to drive my dad home. This youngster (petty criminal he was when he came to the gym six odd months ago, was on community service for doing a stabbing when he showed up at first) and anyways, he comes over to me in the yard and I lock my door. And but he asks me to wind down the window. And he says, your dad, can I have him for my own dad? And which I thought was sweet. He says, your dad has shown me more about being a man than anyone ever did. He says, I would be too afraid to tell him myself. And I never thought of what he had said until later. He said that my dad had SHOWED him about being a man. My dad, this man in two halfs as he is now, and who can not walk the length of himself, still SHOWED this kid, did not tell him like a teacher standing at front of class, but SHOWED him.

And so, yes I know my dad has no place in the thread. Stroke is in no ways the same as the OP topic and but just by way of analogy I mention my dad and because I love him. By all that, I only mean one thing and I was trying to explain earlier, though my analogy may have been a little queer... I do not think as we age, we need to stop DOING MA or even think of stopping. Nothing has to end. Maybe a little modification needs to happen! As the engine ages, I tweak the ECU accordingly. A Ferrari is still a Ferrari...

In my observation I believe as we age through our art we should simply check our slider position, warm up, train a little and then validate that slider position. If it is set right, then go to the max training that the setting allows. If not, readjust and go again. Prudence.

I am sorry for the long post. I felt compelled. I just do not like it when good people get held up by leaves on the tracks when I have a brush and I can maybe sweep them off

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Your post is quite applicable and welcome, I am sorry to hear about your dad's stroke but he certainly sounds like a great guy that is very passionate about boxing and has a lot to teach that many can and do benefit greatly from.

 

[Xue Sheng]

A Ferrari is still a Ferrari...

Oh boy. X S, I sure hope you post pictures of yourself before and after the ECU is tweaked. I expect it to look like this:

I am not nor have I ever been referred to as a Ferrari, currently I am, at best, an old beat up truck (an old 3/4 ton GMC 4X4 :EG: ) but in my youth I was referred to as a tank from time to time

Actually once after sparing a direct quote “You have all the finesse of a tank”:tank: of course I had previously resorted to Xingyiquan against a TKD guy :EG:

 

[jkembry]

(even if my own odometer rolled over today :lol.

Happy Birthday.....and I wish you many more kicks.

 

[kidswarrior]

Thanks, Jeff.

 

[chinto]

ok, mid 40's here, and as your physical condition improves you should find that recovery time decreases... but yes there is a little bit more time to recover then say when i was 19.. but not that much as I am in reasonable shape. so if I am say really working hard on increasing endurance or something..i might be slightly sore next day.. and maybe in the morning of the second day sore.. but by late afternoon im not sore any more usually

 

[Xue Sheng]

ok, mid 40's here, and as your physical condition improves you should find that recovery time decreases... but yes there is a little bit more time to recover then say when i was 19.. but not that much as I am in reasonable shape. so if I am say really working hard on increasing endurance or something..i might be slightly sore next day.. and maybe in the morning of the second day sore.. but by late afternoon im not sore any more usually

Actually I am not sore or stiff at all, it is just after 3 or 4 days in a row of working out (doing what I am now doing) my body decides I am too tired to do it again and makes me take the day off. Then I am back at it again for another 3 or 4 days.

Apparently I now need 2 days off were when I was MUCH younger I needed one day off or many times no days off.

But I am ending this cycle as of Sunday and then ramping things up a bit.... but I still am pretty sure I need to take 2 days off a week.