What are these techniques called?

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' started by Mou Meng Gung Fu, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    I do a little bit of grappling here and there, but I'm not really keen on the traditional terminology for some of the techniques I've learned over the years. My style's focus is more geared towards stand-up grappling (as opposed to ground fighting), so we practice a lot of arm-locks, chokes, sweeps, throws and takedowns from a standing/boxing position or fighting stance. I'm always interested in learning new locks and throws, so if anyone has any ideas on other stand-up grappling techniques, I'm all ears. But I do know how to perform a few basic strangulation holds like the guillotine neck cranking choke and the rear naked choke. I can do a few basic leg sweeps, like sweeping from the inside or outside of an opponent's legs. But I'm trying to figure out the name of these arm-locks and knife-disarms that I practice.

    One involves catching the attacker's vertical downward stabbing knife-hand with both arms while stepping in, then grabbing your own wrist and cranking the opponent's attacking arm backwards to crank the shoulder and take the opponent down backwards (all while keeping a lock on the arm to control the knife).

    Another technique involves catching the attacker's horizontal inward slashing knife-hand with both arms while stepping in, turning your shoulder and back into the opponent while cranking down on their wrist to snap the elbow over your shoulder and throw the opponent down forwards (all while keeping a lock on the arm to control the knife). Does anyone know what these stand-up grappling techniques are called?

    Another technique I just thought of involves catching the attacker's straight thrusting knife-hand by stepping out, seizing the opponent's outer wrist and simultaneously pulling down and forward while pressing their elbow upwards with your other hand to crank the shoulder and drive the opponent face-first into the ground (again keeping a lock on the arm to control the knife). What are the traditional names of these techniques?

    Thanks. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    You may talk about this move. I'll call it "triangle shoulder lock".



     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  3. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    You nailed it. That's the one. Thank you. :)
     
  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In MA,

    - The name is not important.
    - The technique has no standard.
     
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  5. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    I agree 100% with that statement. Why else would my style be called "Nameless Boxing"? Perhaps that's why I went so many years without actually knowing the original names and sources of a lot of the techniques I was practicing. But more recently I'm interested in learning more about the names of said techniques and how they originated. :)
     
  6. kuniggety

    kuniggety 2nd Black Belt

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    A lot of techniques, it's going to be hard to track down the real "origin" of them. If you look hard enough, you can find many of the same techniques in shuai jiao and judo. You'll find similar techniques in chin-na and aikido. You'll find similar in various schools of karate and kung fu. Some of the signature moves of BJJ such as closed guard and the triangle choke are straight up from judo.
     
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  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This technique in Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) is called "shoulder jack" or "outer bowing".

    Shoulder jack - you stand up as a lock.



    Outer bowing - you bend down as a throw.

     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  8. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Hammer Lock, V-arm lock
     
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  9. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Since you posted this in the BJJ forum, I'll answer from a BJJ perspective.

    The first technique would be called an Americana. The second one doesn't have a formal name in BJJ that I'm aware of, although it does exist in the art.
     
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  10. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    In LEO defensive tactics training that's a variation of an arm bar take down. Except you want to drive your arm just above his elbow downward or forward not upward.



    Will work against untrained people. Against anyone with any training probably not so much.
     
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  11. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    Great responses everyone. Thank you. :)

    I've noticed that a lot of grappling techniques exist in many different styles. Sometimes you will find that the same technique has many different names and there appears to be no standardization like someone said before. Do you find it difficult then sometimes when talking to others about grappling, when others may have a different style? Just curious.
     
  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not really if you can find a video. Or if you do it long enough you get a grasp of their terminology
     
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  13. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    I'm still trying to figure out how to post videos on this forum (lol). I might need a tutorial since I'm on my phone. The navigation and display is sometimes confusing to me (not to mention typing on such a small screen with such big fingers and squinted eyes lol).
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Could also be a really ambitious arm drag.
     
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  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Copy paste the url for videos.
     
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  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This is why all grappling skill will need to be trained in "pair" and in reverse force vectors.

    1. Coiler - One involves catching the attacker's vertical downward stabbing knife-hand with both arms while stepping in, then grabbing your own wrist and cranking the opponent's attacking arm backwards to crank the shoulder and take the opponent down backwards (all while keeping a lock on the arm to control the knife).

    2. Grand Slam - Another technique I just thought of involves catching the attacker's straight thrusting knife-hand by stepping out, seizing the opponent's outer wrist and simultaneously pulling down and forward while pressing their elbow upwards with your other hand to crank the shoulder and drive the opponent face-first into the ground (again keeping a lock on the arm to control the knife).

    If we label both technique as Coiler and Grand Slam.

    - Coiler can be used to set up Grand Slam. You try to bend your opponent's arm, when he resists, you can borrow his resistance force, reverse your force and straight his arm.

    - Grand Slam can be used to set up Coiler. You try to straight your opponent's arm, when he resists, you can borrow his resistance force, reverse your force and bend his arm.

    When I do Grand Slam, I prefer to have both of my "tiger mouth (between thumb and index finger)" facing toward my opponent. This way I can drop my elbow control arm much lower.

     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you put your hand to control your opponent's elbow joint,

    - Grappling art such as Shuai Chiao likes to have "tiger mouth (space between thumb and index finger)" to face to your opponent.



    - Striking art such as preying mantis likes to have "tiger mouth" to face to yourself.



    If you are used to method 1, you may feel uncomfortable with method 2. The other way around may also be true.
     
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  18. Mou Meng Gung Fu

    Mou Meng Gung Fu Purple Belt

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    How you described the flow of motion in reverse energy, switching from the coiler to the grand slam and vice versa, that's very true. In fact, I often practice these techniques interchangeably when training with my brothers. Thank you for making that statement.
     
  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    More examples are:

    - hip throw, inner hook
    - leg spring, knee seize
    - leg seize, neck wipe kick
    - under hook leg block, bear hug outer hook
    - leg block, front cut
    - arm locking kick, bowing
    - neck wipe pulling, inner hook
    - twist and spring, leg seize
    - ...

    Here is an example of hip throw, inner hook:

     

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