Weapons in TSD

[Moo D]

It seems that weapons pop in and out of TSD depending on your federation. Some federations use many weapons within their curriculum whilst others use no weapon training at all. But all come under or from the Moo Duk Kwan family.

Personally in the federation I belong to there is no wepaons training at all in the curriculum until 4th Dan and above, when the knife is incorporated. However, I have seen many video clips on the net from TSD people showing weapon forms.

What are your experiences with weapons in TSD??? and do they originat from DJN Hwang and the MDK??

Regards,

 

[glad2bhere]

Great Question!

Since Hwang Kee was heavily influenced by the MYTBTJ and his Chinese training I, for one, would be intersted to know how he dealt with the weapons aspect regarding his art. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Moo D]

Bruce,

It seems that DJN Hwang used only the Kwon Bup section of the MYDBTJ in TSD. As all of the literature that he released over the past 60 years for TSD (SBD) only talked about Kwon Bup and Jok gi. There are no references to wepaons in either volume of Tang Soo Do Soo Bahk Do.

What interests me is where and why weapons have been introduced in many TSD (SBD) Curriculums??? and was this introduction doen by DJN Hwang himself more recently (before his sad passing)??

Regards,

 

[glad2bhere]

I don't know if this will help but in Hapkido the use of weapons is advocated from three points of view.

1.) All of Hapkido arts are bound by adherence to the Three Principles. As extensions of intent, weapons are likewise extensions of MThand techniques as well as the Three Principle. Since a weapon is nothing more than an amplifier of intent it can also amplify mistakes, imperfections and misconceptions about a persons' biomechanics.

2.) Traditionally weapons have always held a higher place in training in Korean martial science and MT Hand material was in a support role. Now in modern times things have switched and its the MTHand thats the main concern and weapons are the adjunct.

3.) The Hapkido arts are presented as Mu-Do or a comprehensive array of related armed and unarmed techniques. People who represent Hapkido arts in this way strive to make sure that the traditional weapons are taught part and parcel of the apkido curriculum. The sad thing is that people who do not study the traditional weapons often introduce exotic weapons from other disciplines and other cultures. I see this as a bad trend for KMA.

I think Hwang Kee needed to put a bit more emphasis on weapons in TSD, but maybe he hit his limits for resources, time, energy--- whatever--- and never quite got around to it. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[dosandojang]

Well, like I said earlier...The only weapon in our TSD/SBD Dojang is a Bo, and it hardly gets used. I really think it is Master specific. I do not think that DJN Hwang Kee used knives, sais, tonfas, spears, etc. If weapons are being used in TSD today, it most likely has to do with each Master's specific training....

 

[Moo D]

I have seen KJN Lee, Kang Uk use a knife in demonstrations, both for one step, Hosinsul and Hyungs. Given that KJN Lee's only instructor was DJN Hwang then he must have been taught the use of the knife from him. I do agree that the only other weapon I have seen demonstrated is the Bo and that at only 4th Dan and above level.

I have wondered if the knife was incorporated by DJN Hwang from his Yang Family connection??

Regards,

 

[kwanjang]

Greetings everyone:
Interesting thread. I wonder how much tournaments have had to do with the introduction of weapons to arts that normally did not practice them?

I have seen a similar influx of Jiu Jitsu and Hap Ki Do style techniques in the self-defense rings of tournaments. In fact, it is becoming hard to find a Japanese martial art that does not include Jiu Jitsu or a Korean art that does not do some form of Hap Ki Do in these events.

As I read over the posts in this thread and one of the other threads dealing with TSD weapons, I noticed one thing... Korean martial artists using Japanese terminology to describe their weapon (such as Bo, instead of Bong). Seems to me a clear indication that some of the schools have adopted Japanese weapons into their Korean curriculum.

What really breaks me up is when one of the young competitors (usually dressed in some star wars like outfit that preferrably glows in the dark) walks up, announces that he is going to perform the "traditional" so and so from his "traditional" martial art school, and then proceeds to perform something right out of some martial art flick he (or his Instructor) has seen.

I have also seen a panel of judges grade a performance of someone doing a sword from, give the performer nine point something scores, and never even noticing that the performer made all his cuts with the sword upside down because he forgot which way was the supposedly sharp side of his sword. I'll give that with a straight sword it is not as easy to spot which way is up as with a curved blade, but Masters hand picked to judge a weapons competition not noticing?????

 

[dosandojang]

Yes Kwang Jang Nim, they go by Bong (Long), Dang Bong (Short), etc. in Han Kuk Mu Ki Do (Traditional Korean Weapons)But in both of my Korean Dojangs, my Masters always called/call a Bong a Bo. Master Norris used to even teach us "Bo Forms" (when they should have been called: "Bong Hyung") as he called/calls them. I think you hit the nail on the head Sir....

 

[kwanjang]

I suspect that the earlier use of the bong was mainly a result of heavy japanese influence, so it is no wonder that the names were Japanese. Just as the word Korean Karate and Sensei are still used by many Korean practitioners. We Western people don't seem to have the same hang ups about the past Korean/Japanese conflicts, and hence it was not a big deal to us. I believe we have grown a lot since the early days, and I think many Korean style martial artists are now beginning to use Korean terminology.

 

[dosandojang]

Great post Kwang Jang Nim Timmerman. I totally agree Sir!

 

[Moo D]

Well Said Kwang Jang Nim, I agree totally as well!!

 

[kwanjang]

One of the best tools we could have going for us to improve knowledge about terminology etc. is this platform. Look at the many things this small group has already accomplished by simply sharing things and learning from one another. I, for one, keep my white belt in my bag at all times, because I am always a student. I have learned a lot from you folks already.

 

[Makalakumu]

Does it seem kind of disingenuous to use Korean terminology to describe the use of Japanese weapons? I have learned weapons forms in Korean dojangs that are directly analagous to those in Japanese dojos. For instance, our TSD Bong Hyung is very similar to the Bo Kata that Goju Ryu practices. What this says to me is that the names of the weapons say more about nationalism then about actual practice.

With all due respect.

upnorthkyosa

 

[glad2bhere]

Absolutely. And what is worse, the Korean weapons are falling by the wayside as the folks focus more on the Japanese and Okinawan material. You know whats REALLY scary? That the Korean nationals are just as much at fault in doing this as the Westerners!! Whats up about that?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Moo D]

Seems strange, especially with the drive and passion of nationalism that exists in both Halves of Korea. Perhaps the Japanese Occupation may have had a deeper and more profound effect on Korean culture.

It seems a shame that the long martial history of Korea, Horsemanship, weapons, etc.. is neglected in such a way!!

Regards,

 

[dosandojang]

Great discussion here!

 

[Moo D]

It certainly is, and I am personally learning a lot!!

 

[kwanjang]

I guess I have been one of the lucky ones. I learned Korean weapons with Korean names in the art I teach. We do not teach weapons that are obviously Japanese or Okinawan. Not that I have anything against it, I just don't see a need for it in my schools, as we have enough weapons to last us all the way to 8th dahn.

 

[dosandojang]

Yes Sir! You are very lucky to have so many weapons in your arsenal in your style!

 

[Kodanjaclay]

Kwanjang,

Do you by chance do seminars? Korean weapons is a weakness of mine. One I would like to close.

Thanks