Warriorhood

[Black Bear]

People in martial arts throw around the word "warrior". What does it mean?

To me, a warrior is an individual whose society has authorized him/her to use force in protection of the society. Generally, they are part of an armed force. Often they fall clearly into either a "policing" or "military" category, though some societies make no such distinction.

Any other usage of the word "warrior" is figurative. People can have a thing in their school called a "warrior weekend" or "warrior team", they may say someone has a "warrior spirit" meaning that they have a the mental resilience of a fighter, but to me, it's figurative whether they know it or not.

Here's a quote that totally contradicts the way I define warrior but is still a cool quote. Carlos Castaneda explained the difference between a "warrior" and an "ordinary man". "The ordinary man sees everything as a blessing or a curse, whereas the warrior sees everything as a challenge".

 

[pknox]

I think the Castaneda quote you mentioned touches on it. To me, a warrior is one who commits themselves to doing battle, and training themselves to do so effectively. Now, this can be a member of the military, or a police officer, who often have a clearly definable "enemy." Their job descriptions definitely fit the classical definition of a warrior. But it can also be a woman who has to overcome an abusive spouse, an alcoholic who fights nobly against their addiction, a cancer patient who struggles against their disease, or basically any person who has been given a "raw deal" in life, and buckles down and overcomes it. In any battle, sometimes the enemy is not so clearly defined. The "training" portion also does not have to always be physical -- it can involve developing mental or spiritual "fitness", which would enable someone to find the wherewithal to continue to strive onward. I think all warriors, no matter what type, have one thing in common - they refuse to give up until there is no fight left in the dog.

 

[kilo]

I was just talking about this tonight. To me a warrior is some one who is just fighting for them self. There own personal glory, some one who wants people to know there name and reapect or fear them. Now a solider -which is what I was- will fight for an ideal, a country, and his/her fellow soliders. I hope this makes sense it sounded good in my head.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Loren W. Christensen has compiled a book for Paladin Press, comprised of essays by "dozens of the nation’s top warriors," that will release (I believe) some time this year. I am very much looking forward to it -- and I think it's safe to say it explores the very themes about which you're asking.

 

[Black Bear]

Originally posted by pknox
I think the Castaneda quote you mentioned touches on it. To me, a warrior is one who commits themselves to doing battle, and training themselves to do so effectively. Now, this can be a member of the military, or a police officer, who often have a clearly definable "enemy." Their job descriptions definitely fit the classical definition of a warrior. But it can also be a woman who has to overcome an abusive spouse, an alcoholic who fights nobly against their addiction, a cancer patient who struggles against their disease, or basically any person who has been given a "raw deal" in life, and buckles down and overcomes it. In any battle, sometimes the enemy is not so clearly defined. The "training" portion also does not have to always be physical -- it can involve developing mental or spiritual "fitness", which would enable someone to find the wherewithal to continue to strive onward. I think all warriors, no matter what type, have one thing in common - they refuse to give up until there is no fight left in the dog.

See, this is exactly what I mean. People call folks "warriors" if they're tough, courageous, resilient, heroic, or whatever else. It's a fine compliment I think. Everyone does it. And that's nice, but to me, this is still just a figurative use of the term. To me, the word warrior is referring to a specific function within society.

I just tried "warrior" on dictionary.com, and they disagree with me too. So flame away!

 

[OULobo]

My biggest problem is that I see the term warrior bound to war. I believe that warrior is another word for soldier. I don't however see peace officers, LEOs and police as warriors. They are centurions.

 

[Makalakumu]

I am not sure that training in Martial Arts turn people into "warriors." If you look at Budo, for instance, and then look at what the samurai actually did, the difference between the ideal and the facts are night and day. Throughout history, this pattern has repeated itself again and again. What it shows us is that "warriors" are just human and sometimes humans do horrible things.

Our training is more paladin like if anything. Some people may have different philosophies and that is okay. I wouldn't consider myself a "warrior", though. I'm just a man who trains to become the best man he can.

 

[Black Bear]

Originally posted by OULobo
My biggest problem is that I see the term warrior bound to war. I believe that warrior is another word for soldier. I don't however see peace officers, LEOs and police as warriors. They are centurions.

A centurion was an officer of the Roman legion who oversaw a "century", a unit of roughly 100 soldiers, give or take I think 20-30. So he'd be a soldier.

 

[pknox]

Not to put words in your mouth, OULobo, but perhaps you meant sentry, as in one who protects or guards?

 

[Black Bear]

Even so, I see the term sentry used more with reference to military applications rather than keeping of the peace.

Oh, that's another thing that I think is funny about you Americans. You're so fond of the term LEO (law enforcement officer). The flavour of that term is... well, put it this way. If someone is going to be policing me, and I had a choice of one who conceives his role as to "enforce the law" and another who sees his job as to "keep the peace", I'll choose the peace officer over the LEO any day.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Black Bear
People in martial arts throw around the word "warrior". What does it mean?

To me, a warrior is an individual whose society has authorized him/her to use force in protection of the society. Generally, they are part of an armed force. Often they fall clearly into either a "policing" or "military" category, though some societies make no such distinction.

Typicaly I would call that a Soldier.

To me, a warrior, is someone who will, if neccessary, unselfishly lay down their life to protect those who are unable, for no reason other than it is the right thing to do.

 

[Bod]

When I think of 'warrior', for some reason I always envisage the Germanic tribes in Gladiator. They liked to swing their warhammers and broadswords in imitation of their gods. That was proper, noble, fighting.

The Roman soldiers on the other sides lined up with their big shields and short gladii, which were practically longish daggers, and did a clinical job, all the while thinking "Why do these no hopers make such a fuss, just to prevent the introduction of better plumbing?".

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Black Bear
Even so, I see the term sentry used more with reference to military applications rather than keeping of the peace.

Oh, that's another thing that I think is funny about you Americans. You're so fond of the term LEO (law enforcement officer). The flavour of that term is... well, put it this way. If someone is going to be policing me, and I had a choice of one who conceives his role as to "enforce the law" and another who sees his job as to "keep the peace", I'll choose the peace officer over the LEO any day.

Okay lets try sentinel then. As for the term LEO, not all LEOs are police or "peace officers". LEOs include federal agencies and others that are less interested in maintaining peace as much as enforcing the law.

 

[Makalakumu]

Are Martial Artists warriors? Or do we play at being warriors? If so, why don't we dispense with the fantasy and become who we really are? Humans trying to be better humans. That is not necessarily a trait of a warrior.

I think these glamorized images of MAists have swollen people egos to the point of popping. For instance, trying to compare this art to that art and then comparing that to fighters in the UFC. I would consider those guys warriors. They fight for a living. I think the majority of us do something a bit different.

 

[loki09789]

Warrior is a term typically applied to tribal/clannish cultures to those who represent the group in battle. The term usually is associated with individual battle reputation and performance. Warrior battle doctrine, in general was to fight bravely, loyally and craftily and amass prestige, wealth and land. There was more individualization of weapons, armor and tactics. Warriors are not egoists going to battle only for themselves, but there is a cultural identity/expectation difference between warrior and soldier. Warriors, traditionally were born into a warrior family and trained from childhood on, like Indian warriors, samurai, knights... and this gave them special status in a culture.

Soldier, on the other hand is the term for those who dress, operate and train uniformly where individual identity is second to supporting the whole force. Soldiers seems to be the term for the fighting class of a culture in societies that have tried to do away with class systems. Everyone is uniformly despised by their drill instructor/sgt/Petty Officer... . For the most part, we don't have WWII vets living in special housing with their children going to special schools and getting special titles just because of who their daddy is. Everyone who meets the citizenry,health and intelligence/education standards can become a soldier/serviceman or woman.

Sorry for the length, but I think that is the major difference in what a warrior is compared to a soldier. The term is so bantered around now that I don't know what people mean when they use it most of the time. I do agree that it is more a figurative usage than title/professional term now.

Paul martin

 

[Black Bear]

Originally posted by OULobo
Okay lets try sentinel then. As for the term LEO, not all LEOs are police or "peace officers". LEOs include federal agencies and others that are less interested in maintaining peace as much as enforcing the law.

An, you make a good point. Okay, so LEO is a more inclusive term. Sure, like immigration agents, park rangers, and other folks like that, they're LEOs but not really peace officers.