Unpopular opinion: early ufc was better than current ufc

[JowGaWolf]

There were certainly plenty of hobbyists/non-fighters who left their TMA to study BJJ, MMA, or some other combat sport. But I'm having a hard time remembering any actual competitive fighters who abandoned their base art. Can you think of any examples?

I'll have to check the early IFC fighters. I could be confusing the hobbyist with the competitive fighters but I'll double check.

 

[Oily Dragon]

They didn't fight very well in those first UFCs

You have to cherry pick but there were some very skilled and blended fighters, and I don't even include Royce Gracie in that crew. He couldn't strike at all, he was mostly the win by attrition guy who tired out other dudes and then went in for the sub. Also why he very quickly had to learn Muay Thai to keep up as competitors got wind of his ground technique.

Compared to say Ken Shamrock, who was very skilled on the ground and standing, or Onassis Parungao, who was a well respected striker and grappler, hand picked for UFC 7, and the first FMA guy in UFC. But he had a very short pro career because he (wisely) chose to leave while it was still no gloves and no weight classes, and now teaches Tai Chi and southern CMA.

 

[marvin8]

There were certainly plenty of hobbyists/non-fighters who left their TMA to study BJJ, MMA, or some other combat sport. But I'm having a hard time remembering any actual competitive fighters who abandoned their base art. Can you think of any examples?

Some champion folk wrestlers (e.g., Gaethje, Dillashaw, Ferguson, etc.) became more strikers to be more exciting, win fights and earn bonus money (e.g., $50k).

The TMA vs MMA is a misnomer. Because, there are many MMA fighters with TMA backgrounds. For example, taekwondo (Rodriguez, Namajunas), Hapkido (Whittaker), Kyokushin (Pierre), Kempo (Thompson) and Lau Gar Kung fu (Michael Page). Many TMAists in MMA say they want to be the best "martial artist" they can be and adopt MMA training.

Yair Rodriguez (TKD) is an MMA fighter who doesn't hate TKD, didn't abandon it and is popular with many fans.

 

[drop bear]

Professional fighting doesn't have anything to do with digging into your system and learning what is being applied to you. Everything that I'm talking about is done in training. That's where fighting skills are learned. Trying to dig deeper into a technique during a professional fight makes no sense.

In a professional fight, you are using skills that you already developed. You are using strategies that you have already learned. You aren't trying new stuff in a professional fight.

This is why I say that I always spar to learn.. When I was training with @Tony Dismukes I put myself in positions that I wouldn't put myself in, if I was in a real fight or competitive fight. I also took the opportunity to use techniques that I though would address certain grappling situations. I was unsure if I was using the right technique. Why would I make that same decision in a competitive fight? I wouldn't. What I'm talking about must be done in training. It's like everything else. Why would I punch in a competitive fight if my punching skill is weak? I wouldn't. I would first train my punching skill in sparring and bring that punching skill to a level that can be used in professional fighting.

This is the learning path that even professional fighters take.. They train and they develop., then they compete.

But fighting isn't your career. So you can afford to do that.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think this is really true for most UFC fighters.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in wrestling didn't abandon wrestling. They learned how to adjust their wrestling for an environment where they could get punched, kicked, and submitted. Along the way, they generally developed some good skills for punching, kicking, choking, and arm-locking along with their wrestling.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in Karate didn't abandon Karate. They learned how to adjust their Karate for an environment where they could get taken down and submitted. Along the way, they generally developed some good skills in wrestling and submissions.

Fighters who came in with a foundation in BJJ initially did very well because they had a tradition of training against wrestlers, karateka, boxers, etc. But a large part of that early success was due to the fact that their methods were a mystery to their opponents. Once all the fighters in MMA were wise to their tricks, then they had to up their game by getting better at striking, wrestling, and even the foundations of BJJ.

What we did see after the first few years of MMA was that most of the would-be fighters who insisted that they didn't need to cross-train because their preferred art held all the answers just stopped showing up to compete, because they couldn't even get do weel at the amateur level, let alone the elite professional ranks. Nowadays we see an increasing number of fighters who come in without a foundation in a single art and just start training in "MMA". i.e. a given gym's synthesis of the essential techniques and training methods for MMA competition. But there are also still plenty of fighters who have a strong foundation in one or two arts and continue using those during their fight careers.

I'm not saying that there are no fighters who started out with a strong base in Wing Chun or TKD or whatever and then completely threw it out in order to go study BJJ and subsequently had a significant MMA fight career. I'm just saying that I can't think of any offhand.

Art jimmerson?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Art jimmerson?

He didn't give up boxing. He just gave up on competing in MMA.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Some champion folk wrestlers (e.g., Gaethje, Dillashaw, Ferguson, etc.) became more strikers to be more exciting, win fights and earn bonus money (e.g., $50k).

I don't consider them to have abandoned their wrestling skills. They just put them to different use. They decided to demonstrate more of their striking skills in the cage, but they still rely on their wrestling skills to keep their opponents from taking them down.

 

[drop bear]

He didn't give up boxing. He just gave up on competing in MMA.

I could have the wrong guy.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He didn't give up boxing. He just gave up on competing in MMA.

Yeah. MMA wasn't for him. Totally out of his element. Having one boxing glove on.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Now I see what all you guys are saying. I was viewing it the wrong way. Mma had to evolve to stay competitive. But man I wish I saw more tma guys using their arts and using training methods and strategies from their own arts to counter muay thai or bjj, I think that would be cool. I watched that fight from ufc 2 I think it was baker vs deluca sorry if I misspelled the names, but it was a wing chun guy vs a 5 animals guy, it had the potential to be a crazy kung fu fight but what ended up happening? Baker shows up in a gi and tries to use grappling and deluca doesn't even use 5 animal he just goes for grappling. So we basically had a grappling match when we could of saw 2 high level kung fu practitioners utilizing their arts. Stuff like that is what I'm talking about. I'm not saying you can't use muay thai or bjj or wrestling I'm just saying it sounds cool to see people from backgrounds like wing chun or kenpo or even tkd develop methods to counter stuff.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Lau Gar Kung fu (Michael Page).

God...what a tragedy. No.

Respectfully, Michael Page is not a herald of Chinese Lau Ga Kuen. He was a great fighter, lots of highlights....but....a different connection than "Three Eyed Lau" Shaolin to martial arts. I know we've discussed there here before maybe last year but the British Lau Ga of Michael Page is not the same Lau Ga that can be found in southern CMA, Hong Kong, etc.

His trainer and father, who died in prison from cancer a few years ago, was a convicted child molester who escaped something like 20 of 22 charges for raping kids as young as 11 due to lack of evidence, but still ended up with a 4 year sentence.

MVP is/was an amazing fighter, for sure. But his lineage is dead.

The best heralds of Lau Ga are the surviving family styles from China. Hung, Choy, Li, Fut, and Mok.