through demonstration

[Josh]

hi all. i've been thinking about it some. it's really neat too. i believe you can be a really really good fighter just through demonstration. you don't have to pick fights to show you're stuff. if you can gain the respect at your school, or through checking out other schools and sparring, through seminar demontrations and freestyle sparring, you can be realy good.

And for example: Alot of the Dog Brothers fighters are great and they have them awesome gatherings with no rules fighting, stick fighting, brazilian jujitsu. a guy named Ray Dionaldo who is an awesome Fillipino Combat Guy and Kali, all those arts. and i've seen some awesome Aikido and Karate guys in time. like the founder of Aikido of course, Ueshiba. it's all good.

so what do ya'll think about all this? %-}

 

[ppko]

I believe you have to field test your style to make sure that what you do is street effective. Especially if it is a new art, there is also a difference between sport karate and street effective karate just because you are good at sparring doesn't mean that you will be a good street fighter. Many systems of Martial Arts have been proven effective through the centuries, but many people have also lost the true meaning of the Martial Arts over time. So I guess my answer is that if you are training for sport than your art may not be street effective, but if you are training for the Martial aspect of karate than it is probably very good for the street.


PPKO

 

[8253]

I believe you have to field test your style to make sure that what you do is street effective. Especially if it is a new art, there is also a difference between sport karate and street effective karate just because you are good at sparring doesn't mean that you will be a good street fighter. Many systems of Martial Arts have been proven effective through the centuries, but many people have also lost the true meaning of the Martial Arts over time. So I guess my answer is that if you are training for sport than your art may not be street effective, but if you are training for the Martial aspect of karate than it is probably very good for the street.


PPKO

what he said.

 

[ppko]

what he said.

lol

PPKO

 

[Tony]

I don't know about this, its tricky. Lets say you get some guys who come to your class and watch what you're doing and don't look particularly impressed. Or you've just broken some boards, and still these guys don't look particularly excited. How impressive it is to watch someone throw or lock his fellow student when he has just given him his arm to play with anyway.
I feel that the more people who know that I practice a Martial the worst it will be because I would be receiving unnecessary challenges.
Sparring in class and tournaments have too many rules and just because you win a few trophies and medals does not make you invincible. If you are in a street encounter you don't have gloves or any protective equipment, you are going to get hurt because you are not fighting for points but for your life and maybe a loved one.
Now I see many people in my class who put a lot of effort in their forms and this could easily be translated into a real fighting scenario if they knew how to apply their techniques.
So the only time I would denstrate my skill would be under life or death circumstances, I would just knock the mother f@cker out!

 

[Josh]

i see what you mean Tony. that was a good point. i guess i was more talking about, You see many Good fighters or whatever good and really work well in demonstrations BECAUSE they were good in the real.

Peace!

 

[MichiganTKD]

As far as field testing your technique to see how good you are, I have a problem with that. I understand people want to know if their technique really works and they haven't just been wasting their time for all these months or years.
Unfortunately, I just don't know how this can be done. We don't want to pick fights with people, and there is something unsatisfactory about testing yourself against another trained fighter in a ring with rules about what you can and cannot do.
The only thing I can really recommend is this: Train as if you might someday have to defend your life. Practice basic kicking with the mindset that you may have to defend against someone who weighs 250 lbs. and is pissed off. Practice basics with the idea that you are developing your body, bettering your balance, and increasing your waist action. Attack the sandbag as you would a person. Every technique you practice, think to yourself "would this technique work if I had to use it?" Finally, have confidence in what you can do. My Instructor years ago told me when I was a teenager that looking for trouble to test yourself was wrong. Have faith that what you do will work.

 

[kenpo tiger]

If you are in a street encounter you don't have gloves or any protective equipment, you are going to get hurt because you are not fighting for points but for your life and maybe a loved one.
Now I see many people in my class who put a lot of effort in their forms and this could easily be translated into a real fighting scenario if they knew how to apply their techniques.
So the only time I would denstrate my skill would be under life or death circumstances, I would just knock the mother f@cker out!

Agreed. There are a few men in my dojo who really dislike forms and say that they're a waste of time. Granted, those men are good fighters, but I agree with your point about putting effort into forms so one can translate them into real fighting scenarios. True, fighting air is easy because the air doesn't fight back (thanks Pete), but I feel that if you are confident in your skill and know your basics you can defend yourself when necessary.

Try hurting one of my sons. You'll find out what I can do.

 

[lvwhitebir]

As far as field testing your technique to see how good you are, I have a problem with that. I understand people want to know if their technique really works and they haven't just been wasting their time for all these months or years.
Unfortunately, I just don't know how this can be done. We don't want to pick fights with people, and there is something unsatisfactory about testing yourself against another trained fighter in a ring with rules about what you can and cannot do.

Thank you! I agree. Besides, isn't it the person and not the art that makes the fighter? Can you really "field test" a style? If so and if one person loses, does that invalidate the style?

WhiteBirch

 

[Littledragon]

hi all. i've been thinking about it some. it's really neat too. i believe you can be a really really good fighter just through demonstration. you don't have to pick fights to show you're stuff. if you can gain the respect at your school, or through checking out other schools and sparring, through seminar demontrations and freestyle sparring, you can be realy good.

And for example: Alot of the Dog Brothers fighters are great and they have them awesome gatherings with no rules fighting, stick fighting, brazilian jujitsu. a guy named Ray Dionaldo who is an awesome Fillipino Combat Guy and Kali, all those arts. and i've seen some awesome Aikido and Karate guys in time. like the founder of Aikido of course, Ueshiba. it's all good.

so what do ya'll think about all this? %-}

There is just one negative about being a good fighter just through demonstration and here my opinion goes, Bruce Lee once said that it is very easy for someone to put on a flashy show and performance but honestly expressing oneself is very hard to do. What I think he means is it is easy to do fancy flips and high flashy kicks but when it comes to real combat between two martial artists those flashy moves you did in the demonstration better hold up in real combat. I think the problem with saying you can be a good fighter through demonstrations can be contradiciting at sometimes. If you see a Wu-Shu practicioner demonstrating their form with alot of flips are you lying to the public? Demonstrations are to inform the public on what martial arts really is. If a Wu-Shu guy fails to defend himself in a self defense street situation then they lied to the public so thats the only con about being a good fighter just through demonstration.

What I like about demonstrations is it informs the public about martial arts. If you have a martial art demonstration on self defense that is great because the people who are watching it and who are insecure can build up confidence by just watching martial arts. Demonstrations are also good to show the public how good you are and what level your skill is. Another good reason for demonstration is for entertainment as well as building up buisness for your school.

But I don't think one can be a good fighter by just demonstrations, if you want to be a good fighter you have to test your self at one point against another. You see alot of master blackbelts preaching behind their bold words but never actually proving them so I think in order to be a good fighter you must test your self and prove that what you have learned is not cheating yourself.

Tarek

 

[Littledragon]

Thank you! I agree. Besides, isn't it the person and not the art that makes the fighter? Can you really "field test" a style? If so and if one person loses, does that invalidate the style?

WhiteBirch

Can you really "field test" a style? If so and if one person loses, does that invalidate the style?

Absolutly not. If a boxer practiconer beats an Aikido practicioner does that mean Boxing is better than Aikido? No, it all depends on the person, the practicioner.
If you go to a youth martial art tournament and there are to 13 year olds one a Tae Kwon Do stylist and one a Karate stylist and the TKD stylist beats the Karate one does that mean TKD is better than Karate? No/

As for as can you really field test a style yes you can on the street but only for self-defense because martial arts teaches one to be humble and never to pick fights. You can really know if your style works because it will take only a couple minutes or seconds to find out on the street. As far as can you field test a style against other styles and martial artists? I dont think so, the closest thing that you could do that was the orignal UFC but even the UFC did not pit real martial art masters from other arts.

It all depends on the man, the person. No style is better than another, one style might have more advantages over another but you can't say one is superior over another. If someone says well Wu-Shu is just all acrobatics and forms and not effective, just look at Jet Li, it depends on the man. If somone says Aikido is too soft and lacks power just look at Morehei Ueshiba and Steven Seagal, it all depends on the man.

Tarek

 

[shesulsa]

You guys know how Kajukenpo got started, right? I only know part of the story and I don't know names, so maybe I shouldn't post this. On the other hand, if someone can give me more details or correct me, I would really appreciate it.

Three buddies worked out together and came up with some techniques that they thought would work really well in the "real world" and they took these techniques to bars and parties to "field test" their style. From what I understand, these guys hurt a lot of people and got rid of what didn't seem to work too well and kept what worked really well, thus Kajukenpo was born.

I have a real problem with this. I can see the efficacy of wanting to know what you do works...but isn't that part of the process? Analyzing the technique, imagining possibilities, getting on the other side of the technique, pushing the envelope in class to a more real-world situation?

Why go and beat people up to prove to yourself you're a bada*s?

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

As far as field testing your technique to see how good you are, I have a problem with that. I understand people want to know if their technique really works and they haven't just been wasting their time for all these months or years.
Unfortunately, I just don't know how this can be done. We don't want to pick fights with people, and there is something unsatisfactory about testing yourself against another trained fighter in a ring with rules about what you can and cannot do.
The only thing I can really recommend is this: Train as if you might someday have to defend your life. Practice basic kicking with the mindset that you may have to defend against someone who weighs 250 lbs. and is pissed off. Practice basics with the idea that you are developing your body, bettering your balance, and increasing your waist action. Attack the sandbag as you would a person. Every technique you practice, think to yourself "would this technique work if I had to use it?" Finally, have confidence in what you can do. My Instructor years ago told me when I was a teenager that looking for trouble to test yourself was wrong. Have faith that what you do will work.

This is precisely why I became a bouncer. It taught me several things: 1. how to talk a guy down; 2. how to recognize the difference between someone who CAN be talked down, and those who will not; 3. learning how to shrug off some really nasty comments--which was hard to do, I used to be a real hot-head; 4. how to subdue and cuff someone without really hurting them; and, finally, that muay thai, "copkido", and wrestling really kicks a$$ in an all-out street brawl.:ultracool

AJ

 

[Littledragon]

This is precisely why I became a bouncer. It taught me several things: 1. how to talk a guy down; 2. how to recognize the difference between someone who CAN be talked down, and those who will not; 3. learning how to shrug off some really nasty comments--which was hard to do, I used to be a real hot-head; 4. how to subdue and cuff someone without really hurting them; and, finally, that muay thai, "copkido", and wrestling really kicks a$$ in an all-out street brawl.:ultracool

AJ

You are a martial art bouncer, that is really cool. How old do you have to be in order to become a bouncer?

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

You are a martial art bouncer, that is really cool. How old do you have to be in order to become a bouncer?

I don't do it anymore, except when I need a little extra cash, like when I wreck my sportbike (DOH!). But I did it for about three 1/2 years. Actually, I showed up trying to get a bartender's position, and boss-man asked If I wanted to work the back-door, as he was short a bouncer. I worked that weekend, he told me to keep the shirt and the two-way, and to show up next weekend. Awesome experience, though. In fact, come to think of it, all my friends I met either through MA or bouncing. Some of my best friends, actually. It's hard to be in a situation that builds as much trust and comradery as MA or security, and we're all pretty close-knit.





AJ