Thoughts on Life Bar replacing Points in TKD Sparring

[skribs]

Donation may be optional, but I'd be willing to bet it would lead to friction between those who opt to donate and those who do not (or their families if more relevant). Whether that would be observed by the people running the school is a different matter.

Do you have anything to base this assumption on?

I've donated and never felt any friction. We've had things donated by others and there's never been any friction.

 

[pdg]

Do you have anything to base this assumption on?

Personal experience and observation in a multitude of settings.

Whenever a donation of time or money (especially money) is asked for, if it's discovered that anyone donated less than another there are always comments made.

 

[skribs]

Personal experience and observation in a multitude of settings.

Whenever a donation of time or money (especially money) is asked for, if it's discovered that anyone donated less than another there are always comments made.

If you're going to claim that something "always" happens, you should be 100% sure that it doesn't ever not happen. I've seen it not happen more often than not. Especially in places where you're supposed to build each other up like a Martial Arts school.

I've donated a ton to my school, and it's very obvious what I've donated, and nobody ever makes any comments about it. I do so out of my passion for martial arts and my love for the other students of the school. I don't look down on anyone else because there haven't been donations. The only person I'd look down on is someone who donated to the school and then tried to use that to their advantage.

 

[pdg]

If you're going to claim that something "always" happens, you should be 100% sure that it doesn't ever not happen

And here's another linguistic problem 'twixt English and American.

The word "always" can mean absolutely all the time in every single event.

It can also colloquially mean "more often than not" or also "frequently enough to be notable".

An example - "I always see you here" is almost certainly never true except when using the colloquial. I mean, both parties likely leave said location.

Likewise, "you always do that" - unless the that in question is something like metabolise then that phrase is also strictly incorrect.

 

[skribs]

And here's another linguistic problem 'twixt English and American.

The word "always" can mean absolutely all the time in every single event.

It can also colloquially mean "more often than not" or also "frequently enough to be notable".

An example - "I always see you here" is almost certainly never true except when using the colloquial. I mean, both parties likely leave said location.

Likewise, "you always do that" - unless the that in question is something like metabolise then that phrase is also strictly incorrect.

There are other words and phrases that are more precise to what you mean, such as:

• Usually
• Typically
• In most cases

What you're referring to is an exaggeration. It's also something that in my education in psychology is frowned on, especially in the case of behavior. For example, "you always do this" is a phrase just dripping with contempt, and is usually inaccurate. "There are always comments made" falls into this category.

 

[pdg]

There are other words and phrases that are more precise to what you mean, such as:

• Usually
• Typically
• In most cases

What you're referring to is an exaggeration. It's also something that in my education in psychology is frowned on, especially in the case of behavior. For example, "you always do this" is a phrase just dripping with contempt, and is usually inaccurate. "There are always comments made" falls into this category.

Again, that may very well be the case in American, but not English, and especially not under colloquial usage.

What about when "you always do this" is actually something like "you always make me happy", even though it may not be strictly true under the original definition of the word? Is that "dripping with contempt"?

In fact, you've done exactly the same thing by using the word "dripping".

Just how exactly has contempt become a physical entity capable of beading up and falling off a concept?

 

[skribs]

Again, that may very well be the case in American, but not English, and especially not under colloquial usage.

What about when "you always do this" is actually something like "you always make me happy", even though it may not be strictly true under the original definition of the word? Is that "dripping with contempt"?

In fact, you've done exactly the same thing by using the word "dripping".

Just how exactly has contempt become a physical entity capable of beading up and falling off a concept?

Are you really going to compare my use of a metaphor to your use of inaccurate language?

 

[pdg]

Are you really going to compare my use of a metaphor to your use of inaccurate language?

Yes.

Because in English, the colloquial usage of "always" and "dripping with" are equivalent in correctness.

In that, neither are specifically correct but have both become generally accepted terms.

 

[pdg]

@skribs - what is your basis for disagreement?

What I said in terms of equivalence is correct with regard English - disagreeing with it can't change it.

It's akin to disagreeing with the fact that getting water on you makes you wet.

 

[skribs]

@skribs - what is your basis for disagreement?

What I said in terms of equivalence is correct with regard English - disagreeing with it can't change it.

It's akin to disagreeing with the fact that getting water on you makes you wet.

I've just decided to stop arguing with you on this. It doesn't mean you're right. It just means I'm wasting my time talking to a brick wall and I've got better things to do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Donation may be optional, but I'd be willing to bet it would lead to friction between those who opt to donate and those who do not (or their families if more relevant). Whether that would be observed by the people running the school is a different matter.

people who donate know that there money is going to help someone who can't afford something. They don't look at it as fair or unfair. If they think that then they won't donate at all so it doesn't become an issue. I've never been angry or questioned fairness when donating. As long as it goes to the stated cause people won't mind.

 

[pdg]

people who donate know that there money is going to help someone who can't afford something. They don't look at it as fair or unfair. If they think that then they won't donate at all so it doesn't become an issue. I've never been angry or questioned fairness when donating. As long as it goes to the stated cause people won't mind.

In the case of the way you previously described a club running (pretty much just to cover the rent and equipment) then I can see that being the way in some cases.

As I said though, if it's a business being run as a profit making enterprise funded by tuition fees then even asking for donations makes my skin crawl. I wouldn't dream of asking my customers for an extra donation on top of what they already pay me to fund the purchase of a new tool - I really don't understand why it's a different situation.

Unfortunately, especially in the area I live, how much and how often you donate to anything is seen as some sort of status symbol (or evidence of how great you are) and anyone who doesn't or can't donate to the same level is looked down on with derision. I know a single mother who has on a few occasions given money to the pta fund that she really couldn't afford to give because of the constant pressure from more affluent members, things like them stopping her in the morning while dropping the kids off and saying things like "why haven't we had your donation yet?" And that is something that happens on every single occasion.

After one such instance, my daughter asked hers if she wanted to come to an activity with us, and the mother was quite obviously embarrassed to tell me she couldn't afford for her daughter to go (because all she had left that week went to the pta). I happily covered it for her but the situation made me extremely angry toward those committee members.

I was asked the very same question once - I very carefully chose my response to be as absolutely nasty as possible and am very glad of the reputation that afforded me. It's not that I'm unwilling to ever make a donation to a cause of some sort, I just absolutely refuse to be coerced into it to satisfy someone else.

It's that sort of thing that steers my opinion.

 

[Buka]

One of the complaints a lot of people have regarding TKD sparring (specifically WT Olympic-style sparring) is that it has gone away from being a martial art, towards a foot-fencing game. It seems a common opinion that the game itself is fun, but there's a lot of room for improvement. There seems to be a call for the harder-hitting, more practical kicks to once again be the primary focus of the sparring.

The first time I saw a solution to this, it was on Shark Tank of all places. I say "of all places", because it seems weird to me that the invention of the 20/20 chestguard and the life meter would need the approval of the WT authorities in Korea, and not the American sharks who have nothing to do with TKD. However, I liked the idea, for the reasons presented. Having a "life bar" like a video game allows you to give different strength kicks a different damaging value, which would correspond to a higher scoring technique. It also means you should theoretically have less ties go to sudden death, because once one player gets to 0, the match is over.

This is a video I found posted to Reddit, r/Taekwondo, which features the same system being used experimentally.

Personally, I love the idea of these. On the one hand, it makes the fights feel like a real life video game. But on the other, it makes it so strength matters towards your score more than simply a binary check of whether or not you kicked hard enough to score.

What do you guys think of this type of system? Does it fix the problems with current WT sparring? Do you disagree there were problems with WT sparring? Does this system make it feel too much like a video game for your taste?

I'm a little bit confused. (Like that's anything new) I've never actually been to a TKD tournament. Back when I did TKD we only competed in open tournaments.

Is punching allowed in that kind of competition shown?

 

[skribs]

I'm a little bit confused. (Like that's anything new) I've never actually been to a TKD tournament. Back when I did TKD we only competed in open tournaments.

Is punching allowed in that kind of competition shown?

Technically yes. But not really.

Punches can only be a straight punch to the chestguard. No hooks, nothing to the face. Punches can score, but will usually only score 1 point on a really good punch, where a basic kick scores 2 points, 3 points for a spinning kick or a head kick, 4 points for a spinning head kick. And for a punch to score, it has to knock your opponent back, which means there's very little chance of scoring multiple points off of a punch. If I knock you back, you're out of range of another punch.

It gets worse in Daedo sparring. Your feet have electronics on them that activate the target's sensors. Your gloves don't. So kicks are automatically scored (and the judges give a bonus if you were spinning), but your punches aren't automatically scored.

Personally, I use punches a lot. But I mainly use them to interrupt kicks or to set up a kick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In the case of the way you previously described a club running (pretty much just to cover the rent and equipment) then I can see that being the way in some cases.

Just covering the rent should always be a point along the path towards your destination and never the destination. You can't grow and expand and buy better equipment and support the school by making just enough to cover the rent. I never had that plan in mind for the school. That was always a starting point. Had I still been in the school we would have already had our own building.

if it's a business being run as a profit making enterprise funded by tuition fees then even asking for donations makes my skin crawl.

You don't ask for donations. You make it available. For example, A child may have uncles, aunts, cousins, older brothers, older sisters, grandparents who in term may have their groups of friends or may work for a company who is looking to sponsor a worth while organization. Why would that make your skin crawl? You don't ask the students to donate, you make possible for people to donate, because people have friends and family who don't train in your organization but support what you do.

If you are a student, the the only thing I really want is for you to just show up. Even if you can't afford the class, but show up, I'll take you. Because the more bodies in the school the better the experience will be and bigger that feeling of belonging will be. That feeling that "I'm a part of something good". So yeah. if a student can't pay but can show up to practice and train hard. I'll invest in that student, because that not only helps the student but it helps the school.

Unfortunately, especially in the area I live, how much and how often you donate to anything is seen as some sort of status symbol (or evidence of how great you are) and anyone who doesn't or can't donate to the same level is looked down on with derision.

While I don't turn that money away, I always do my best not to let donations or giving take that image. Give because it's a good thing for you to do for something you like and support. Give because an organization is making a difference. Don't give because you are trying to feed your ego, but if you want to do that, I'll accept the money as well lol.

For most of my life I've worked with people who had very little. I myself don't have a lot even though in some areas I've got more than most people rich or poor. I try to bring honesty in what I do and it seems to be the best way for me and those who partner with me. I'll give you an example. In my 20's I used to do car washes with a youth group. It was a summer thing to teach the value of quality work. Do a great job and people will appreciate it. The car wash was only $5 and we worked out butts off. Subway sponsored us and provided a location where we could wash cars. It helped them too. Get a sub while your car gets washed type of opportunity. But back to the $5. That's what we charged, but customers paid more because they wanted to. On an average customers would pay us $20 after they saw how hard the teens worked and how professional and serious they were about giving that car a proper wash.

We made so much money that summer that it was more than the yearly budget provided to the City by the youth group. One day one of the city managers of the recreation department tried to hold money over the club by saying that he wouldn't pay for a free trip to an amusement park. My response was, no problem we got money. We took about 15 teens and paid for their trip. Had a good time. Eventually the group became popular enough were we could sponsor events. Even the police department help contribute.. The thing about all of this is that we never asked anyone to donate to our group. But we made it available to do so.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Technically yes. But not really.

Punches can only be a straight punch to the chestguard. No hooks, nothing to the face. Punches can score, but will usually only score 1 point on a really good punch, where a basic kick scores 2 points, 3 points for a spinning kick or a head kick, 4 points for a spinning head kick. And for a punch to score, it has to knock your opponent back, which means there's very little chance of scoring multiple points off of a punch. If I knock you back, you're out of range of another punch.

It gets worse in Daedo sparring. Your feet have electronics on them that activate the target's sensors. Your gloves don't. So kicks are automatically scored (and the judges give a bonus if you were spinning), but your punches aren't automatically scored.

Personally, I use punches a lot. But I mainly use them to interrupt kicks or to set up a kick.

Are hooks to the body not allowed, or do they just not score any points? what about uppercuts?

 

[skribs]

Are hooks to the body not allowed, or do they just not score any points? what about uppercuts?

I'm like 95% sure they aren't allowed, only straight punches.

A body uppercut (what we would call an underpunch) I'm 90% sure isn't allowed.

Even if they were it wouldn't matter too much. You're not going to do much against a chestguard unless you hit the solar plexus.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You're not going to do much against a chestguard unless you hit the solar plexus.

Being that it's a chest guard I would hope this would be the case. So it would seem that the underpunch would be a good punch to use unless the chestguard is going break your hand.