Thinkin' & Drinkin'

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Used to be a generation of kenpo and judo dinosaurs who would knock back a few beers before practice, both to gain some sense of seperation from the pain they were about to endure, as well as to get out of their own way mentally.

Feed the meter: Is training better done crystal clear, or slightly under the influence?

Overdoing it: Uechi-ryu founder drank so much, so often, died from diseases secondary to alcoholism. Insights and opinions?

 

[Gary Crawford]

I have never attended a formal class under the influince,but I have definatly trained at home several times after three or four beers.I'd be reluctant to sparr after drinking,maybe I'd be better,maybe worse.I might even get hurt or hurt someone more than necessary.Both are scary.

 

[elcajon555]

I have never tried training under the influence of any substance. I don;t think it would a good idea, the more intoxicated you are the more control you loose and therefore could seriously hurt someone. I don;t mixing the two is a good idea.

 

[OUMoose]

Never trained after drinking. I think it would have too many negative side effects from a physiological standpoint alone.

Now AFTER practice is a whole 'nother story...

 

[loki09789]

The experiencial affect of training after drinking might be good awareness of dealing with disorientation, reduced coordination.... but honestly I think that the same mental/physiological altered state can be accomplished by just setting up the occasional 'gut check' work out and doing exercises of somekind with the intent of creating exhaustion and then try and perform in some martial/self defense scenario.

Ancient/not so ancient practices of using mind altering drugs in relation to martial performance generally is linked to rituals and spiritual goals - achieving some kind of invinsibility mentallity or things along that line.

In our current culture, if you regularly promote or practice this type of habit, it would be considered immoral and the equivelant of drinking and driving or drinking and carrying a gun or hunting while drunk.

 

[theletch1]

I've gotta agree with everyone else to this point. Training under the influence of anything other then adrenalin is not a good idea. The alchohol could cause an ever so slight loss of perception during a technique and result in injury to your training partner. Beyond the personal responsibility that you have to your fellow martial artists lies a legal responsibility to your dojo.

 

[OULobo]

I guess I can be the devil's advocate here. but first a few qualifiers. All strories that involve being drunk at a practice were in a college setting and involved no driving. The rest were occations where my fiance was driving.

When I was still in college I never drank before a practice, but I showed up at some weekend morning ones still quite drunk from the night before's festivities. These were never productive training sessions. I was either sick or completely lacking motivation and energy. Other nicities included alcohol secretions with sweat, putrid breath and slight lack of balance and coordination. I don't recomend this as a course of action for anyone.

Since I have been out of college I drink much less (can't drive home from the bars), but occationally I will have a pint or two at the pub where some of my organizational meetings from various clubs and asssociations occur at. If this happens on a night of a practice, I head straight to the school (with my fiancee driving). On those nights, I find no difference in performance or motivation. I don't really see this as a problem as it is not effecting my abilities/control and if it does have an effect that I (or others) can't percieve then it is just training in a condition that is common in my lifestyle and therefore effective as a training mindset.

I do think that it is a good idea to realize the effects of alcohol on yourself and your abilities as perspective builder, but it shouldn't be done on a regular basis.

 

[Jason Davis]

Puching a heavy bag is kinda fun sometimes after a few drinks.

 

[Andi]

My old club at uni had a "Thou must not come here wasted rule" which was fair enough I thought. I only ever saw it broken once, and the offender (wasnt drunk, just had it on his breath) was reminded of the risks (as pointed out above) and politely asked to go home. Post-training visit to the pub is always fun though!

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

I have never trained or done any kind of workout under the influence of anything.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

OK, I'm one of those BAD BOYS from way back in the stone (d) age.
Yep, I practiced more than once under the influence of more than just beer.
My instructor put up with i but kept a real close reign on mw and work my behind off fo it. He always said I'd make a hell of a good martial artit of I ver stopd drinking and some o my other activeities.
I owe him a deep dept for putting up with all my nonsence in those days.He helped change me for the better and i am thankful.
Now if a student of mine showes up and I fell or sence he may have had something befor practice we have a old time workout with lots and lots of excercises then anything I can think of to see if he passes out and if he can stay coordinated. Throwing up is not allowed on my floor they must use the inside of the gi jacket they are wareing.

 

[elcajon555]

Yeah we have that "rule" of throwing up as well, that it must be in your uniform if you can;t make it to the bathroom. My instructor is the same way about making a hard workout, now I haven; even shown up smelling like alcohol, at least I don;t think I have, but a fellow student has and he was warned that next time he shows up smelling like alcohol then the class will be a living hell. The closet I have ever been to training under the influence was three hours before I had class I had three shots, thus by the time I went to class it was out of my system, that was not a smart thing to do.

 

[D.Cobb]

Well aside from the fact that alcahol impairs the bodies ability to repair muscle, it can also cause serious problems when pressure point applications come into play. You are more susceptible to KO and it is possible that you might have a heart attack if you are KOd.

--Dave

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Pseudo-private message to the rocket scientist who opted to ding my karma on the basis of this thread.

Did I promote drinking and training at any time when I posted it originally? I have made multiple inflammatory comments in debate with others which would most certainly have warranted bad-boy brownie points from any wishing to differ vigorously, but I heven't even posted an opinion here? I started the thread b/c of reading an accounting of the passing of Uechi-ryu founder from liver disease, and remembering some of the stopries of MA pioneers who's lives were profundly affected by alcohol.

For the record, I advocate the occasional imbibition of red wine; saw way too many people do way too many stupid things under the influence working in bars and clubs for years, myself included. As such, am NOT a fan of drinking and training. Or drinking and much of anything else, for that matter (have enough of a hard time keeping my life running smoothly un-impeded).

So, please, the next time you get it in your little pea brain to hammer away on my brownie-button points, at least have the decency and the wit to do it to me for something I've said..a stance I've taken that you think is heinous...rather then for a position not made known. The purpose of starting a thread is to prompt opinions and feedback. If I have tripped over your A.A. sensibilities or some such thing, then offer that opinion to the forum, rather then being passive aggressive and taking blind shots. The brownie points themselves don't matter...hell, I expected to lose them all when I said the entire AK lineage was a bastard line; that there is no such thing as "traditional" kenpo; and blasted the modern day fundamentalist church for grossly abusing the teachings of Jesus. Just have the huevos to stand up and say what you think, and take the credit or the shame for the stance you take.

Apologies to the rest of you...just a peave of mine (passive-aggression; maybe some unworked out Mommy issues).

Until we meet again in that place where we are all one - except the passive-aggressive, who have their own level of hell in Dante's inferno (or should),

Dr. Dave

 

[Black Bear]

Senshido practices both sparring and scenario simulation after getting pretty wasted, because they want to simulate the various conditions under which you might be required to defend yourself.

For many obvious reasons, I don't think this would work out that great for most schools nowadays, not during regularly scheduled classes anyway.

 

[clapping_tiger]

During regular class hours: bad idea from a liability standpoint

:cheers: Outside of class with friends from the school: excellent idea if you are one who goes out to bars. It could show you how alcohol effects your judgment, timing, accuracy, ect. Maybe next time you have knocked back a few to many, and something happens when you think to yourself: "Hey, I can handle myself in a fight." you may think twice.

I have done it the second way, but never trained in class while drunk. The only problem I would have with it is that along with the drinking usually comes the "beer muscles" and "liquid courage" syndrome, and tempers can easily flare up even if you are good friends with whom you are training. But we have always had a lot of fun.

:drinkbeer

 

[Nightingale]

I believe one should always train with a clear mind.

Nothin' wrong with kickin' back a few coronas after training, however. :uhyeah:

 

[tshadowchaser]

It wil open your eyes a little if you ( anyone) and a few friends get togeather some day and tilt back a few or more than a few then have a sparring session or just do forms. Tape it so you all can see the results on a day in the future. It is amaseing what you can see on such films . Heck its amaseing what the body can and can not do under the influence of different amounts of (insert favorite drink)

 

[Zoran]

I know there is a study on the subject somewhere. Usually, if you learn something in a certain frame of mind, you can only do that something well while in that same frame of mind. Hence why many schools try to induce stress during training that somewhat simulates the frame of mind you may be in during a real confrontation.

But since the subject is drinking. While working at a bar that had pool tables, we had this one patron who was really horible at pool. At least while sober. This guy would loose game after game at the beginning of the night. However, while he drank, he would make more of his shots and be almost unbeatable. By the end of the night, he could barely stand and would be swaying while playing the game (saw him fall over once). It was quite a sight to see and very amusing to watch. When he was in that state, he would rarely miss a shot (as a matter of fact, he made some incredible shots)

After a while, I asked him what the deal was. He told me that he learned to play pool while drunk and really can't play well until he is in that state. Good thing he didn't learn how to drive in that state. Otherwise he would need to get a citation for driving while not under the influence.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Back in my College days, when I was young and stupid, I came to a promotional testing one time after having a few too many beers. I ended up free fighting the Grandmaster's son. I still have the crooked nose from where he kicked me with a high roundhouse. His kicking was fast enough with me sober. Slightly drunk, with slowed reflexes, I had no chance. I've never done that since.
However, practicing by yourself drunk can be rather fun. A friend of mine and myself spent many occasions drunk trying to test each other in sparring. But no accidents occured, because we both knew our limits.
Being older now, I have NEVER taught a class with alcohol in my system, and would not tolerate a student who showed up drunk. First time, I would send them home. Second time, I might conceivably suspend them until they wise up. Showing up drunk would indicate a lack of respect for me and the class, as well as putting themselves and classmates at risk.
I have often drunk alcohol with other Instructors. However, our cardinal rule is this: You may drink as much as you want, but you better not ever ACT drunk, even if you are. And it is your responsibility to make sure you get home safely. As far as I know, no Instructor has ever been arrested for drunk driving or hit someone.
If you want to get s___faced drunk, do it away from your Oragnization, students, and colleagues. They don't need to see you like that.