The Truth About Traditional Martial Arts

[Dirty Dog]

Taekwondo is to grow as a person.

Taekwondo translates as 'the art of kicking and punching' and that is what it is, at it's most fundamental level. Personal growth is good, but it's a secondary (or tertiary) part of MA training.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Taekwondo translates as 'the art of kicking and punching' and that is what it is, at it's most fundamental level. Personal growth is good, but it's a secondary (or tertiary) part of MA training.

Agree with you 100% there.

If we treat secondary (such as health, inner peace) as the main goal of our MA training, any physical contact can be treated as "unhealthy" and "violent".

 

[marvin8]

The issue is (and the OP did the same thing) we are not using the definition to describe the act.

We are trying to make the act fit the definition.

Or basically rejecting reality and substituting our own.

And that is a poor understanding of how language works.

11 Words With Meanings That Have Changed Drastically Over Time

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www.mentalfloss.com

Adam’s definition of "traditional" CMA:

• pre-dates the Qing Dynasty, before 1644
• war
• weapons
• killing
• only grappling (no striking or kicking)
• live tradition

Apparent contradictions:

• Shaolin temple, built in 495 A.D., included empty hand striking and kicking.
• Modern MA (e.g., MMA, sambo, BJJ, judo, wrestling) includes takedowns, grappling and submissions. It's not necessary to strike and kick.
• A punch can turn into a grab, head control, clinch, etc.
• The OP video includes striking as most of Adam’s videos on his Youtube channel.
• “Live TCMA” evolves into empty hand, striking and kicking.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I didn't watch them.

I don't care. I know what art I study. Call it anything you like. I will still train.

Too many people worried about what everyone else thinks. Do what you do. Enjoy it. That's all there is to it.

This is a discussion board is it not?

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I may not know what MMA is, but I do know what TMA is. I don't need anybody to redefine it for me.

Nobody is trying to redefine anything for anyone - it is just an opinion being shared on a discussion board. The videos contain interesting thoughts and concepts which can inform any martial artists practice. There is no dogma. It is not about trying to prove people wrong or right, it is just one man's opinion being shared - the reactions of some of you guys really stuns me at times. It seems to me there are a lot of grumpy old men on this forum with fixed mindsets. In the dojos and gyms I have trained in the teachers and students have been a lot more open to ideas, retaining the beginner's mind, ready to investigate and learn.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Adam’s definition of "traditional" CMA:

• pre-dates the Qing Dynasty, before 1644
• war
• weapons
• killing
• only grappling (no striking or kicking)
• live tradition

Apparent contradictions:

• Shaolin temple, built in 495 A.D., included empty hand striking and kicking.
• Modern MA (e.g., MMA, sambo, BJJ, judo, wrestling) includes takedowns, grappling and submissions. It's not necessary to strike and kick.
• A punch can turn into a grab, head control, clinch, etc.
• The OP video includes striking as most of Adam’s videos on his Youtube channel.
• “Live TCMA” evolves into empty hand, striking and kicking.

Not sure I fully understand your list of apparent contradictions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The videos contain interesting thoughts and concepts which can inform any martial artists practice.

When I started to watch the 1st video and saw that his opponent punches him once, but he punches back 9 times while his opponent's body is still frozen into the thin air. I stopped watching the rest of those videos.

I think I may have some speed that's faster than the average. But all my videos are:

- You make 1 move. I respond with 1 move.
- You then respond with another move. I then respond with another move.
- ...

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Taekwondo translates as 'the art of kicking and punching' and that is what it is, at it's most fundamental level. Personal growth is good, but it's a secondary (or tertiary) part of MA training.

Taekwondo is a modern martial art, and these days more commonly recognised as an Olympic sport. All sports have the potential for personal growth development, but as this section of the forum and videos are specific to CMA I would like to share the following thoughts from Adam Hsu:

Kung-Fu training exercises, forms, and movements should not be designed and practiced with the sole intention of destroying an opponent. Real kung-fu training must enrich the entire human being, improving health, developing physical and mental abilities, and expanding one's philosophical outlook and worldview. This is why kung-fu is such an outstanding and beneficial discipline for our society. The martial artist who tires to transform his human body into human robot or super fighting machine is making a big mistake and demeaning the art of kung-fu. Practitioners should always check to make sure that their training is really kung-fu ~ educating and enhancing the body, mind, and spirit.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Real kung-fu training must enrich the entire human being, improving health, developing physical and mental abilities, and expanding one's philosophical outlook and worldview.

The CMA Xingyi master Li Cun-Yi said, "The Xingyi Quan is used for killing. It's not used for performing."

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The CMA Xingyi master Li Cun-Yi said, "The Xingyi Quan is used for killing. It's not used for performing."

View attachment 29875

Perhaps he means that it is used for killing the ego

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Perhaps he means that it is used for killing the ego

Do you read Chinese?

杀 Sha - kill
敌 Di - enemy

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

but as this section of the forum and videos are specific to CMA I would like to share the following thoughts from Adam Hsu:

Kung-Fu training exercises, forms, and movements should not be designed and practiced with the sole intention of destroying an opponent. Real kung-fu training must enrich the entire human being, improving health, developing physical and mental abilities, and expanding one's philosophical outlook and worldview. This is why kung-fu is such an outstanding and beneficial discipline for our society. The martial artist who tires to transform his human body into human robot or super fighting machine is making a big mistake and demeaning the art of kung-fu. Practitioners should always check to make sure that their training is really kung-fu ~ educating and enhancing the body, mind, and spirit.

Are you sure this is what Adam Hsu has said? I know him all my life. I have not heard him ever said this.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Do you read Chinese?

杀 Sha - kill
敌 Di - enemy


View attachment 29876

Does it define the enemy?

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Are you sure this is what Adam Hsu has said? I know him all my life. I have not heard him ever said this.

Well, he wrote these words in the book The Sword Polisher's Record: The Way of Kung-Fu by Adam Hsu

 

[Flying Crane]

Taekwondo is a modern martial art, and these days more commonly recognised as an Olympic sport. All sports have the potential for personal growth development, but as this section of the forum and videos are specific to CMA I would like to share the following thoughts from Adam Hsu:

Kung-Fu training exercises, forms, and movements should not be designed and practiced with the sole intention of destroying an opponent. Real kung-fu training must enrich the entire human being, improving health, developing physical and mental abilities, and expanding one's philosophical outlook and worldview. This is why kung-fu is such an outstanding and beneficial discipline for our society. The martial artist who tires to transform his human body into human robot or super fighting machine is making a big mistake and demeaning the art of kung-fu. Practitioners should always check to make sure that their training is really kung-fu ~ educating and enhancing the body, mind, and spirit.

This runs the risk of falling into the “no true Scotsman” argument.

What is “true” kung Fu, and who gets to determine that definition? I would say that Kung fu is different things for different people, even when they are contradictory and even when we don’t like how someone else is defining it.

I recently read a book whose title and author escape me at the moment, the author is a history professor at Cornell University or something, but it talked about much of the history that Adam Chan discussed, the old war skills that was Chinese martial arts in an earlier era. I don’t doubt the historical accuracy of the information, but I do not believe that is THE definition of traditional Chinese martial arts. Something becomes a tradition when it is passed down from one generation to another. Exactly how many generations is required for something to be deemed “traditional” is a murky and undefined issue but I would say there is plenty of time in the modern era as defined by both that book and by Adam Chan, for something to qualify as traditional. That would include many of the methods that we practice today.

I appreciate the perspective that this history lesson gives us, but I’ve been reflecting on it for a couple of days now and I guess I reject that as the definition of what it means to speak of traditional Chinese martial arts.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Man, you come right out of a comic book 🤣

 

[Xue Sheng]

Too many people worried about what everyone else thinks. Do what you do. Enjoy it. That's all there is to it.

 

[mograph]

Too many people worried about what everyone else thinks. Do what you do. Enjoy it. That's all there is to it.

Yes. It's been said that this is a discussion forum. However, to say that an art is this, and only this, and nothing else, is to limit discussion.

I do this, you do that, they do the other thing, and it's all fine.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

These responses are so bizarre. It seems a lot of you are getting caught in the definition of TMA. By focusing all your attention on the title you are missing the content. There are a lot of useful ideas within these videos which are valuable to all martial artists. Throw off the shackles and free your mind from the need to define. Dive in and seek what is useful. We are all practicing martial artists and we can all learn from one another. This is not a religion, there is no need to be so dogmatic in your approach. There are different schools of thought from which we can learn. It just requires an open mind - oh yeah, and the ability to actually watch the videos in the first place

 

[Taiji Rebel]

What about enlightenment or character as gained through hardship?

Eg.

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Boxing and Yoga are such a great combination. The flexibility of a western martial system combined with the mindfulness of yoga to create purpose and a sense of character. You got to love us Brits - we certainly know how to look out for our troubled youth. All of the boxing clubs I trained in over the years produced amazingly balanced fighters/citizens, and if I am 100% honest, much more so than any of the Eastern martial arts clubs I attended - plus the training was a hell of a lot tougher both mentally and physically which really tested your mettle. Many thanks for sharing this article with us Mr. Bear 🙏