The difference

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Eric Damon Rapier, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Orange Belt

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    The "sanitization" of Okinawan karate for public schools leading to Japanese Shotokan lasted for more than a snapshot - more like 70 years or more. It wasn't just Shotokan that lost many of the original moves by design - Okinawan styles did too, though maybe not as much, as their katas retained more of their original design containing the combat bunkai. Obviously you don't want school kids learning breaks and dislocates. Okinawans kept their kata unchanged pretty much, though did not teach the true applications to the Americans who brought karate back to the USA. So even though Okinawan katas had those moves, few American people knew it!



    No doubt, each dojo is unique in what and how it teaches. Every individual is different. But looking at the styles as a whole and the way the katas are performed, assuming the style is contained in the katas, a very noticeable difference can be seen between the two, as the video clips supplied by Mitlov show.
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    I think you're equating "lack of joint locks" with "sanitized." There's no doubt that Shotokan has fewer jiu-jitsu-like elements than Goju does. But that doesn't mean the katas are sanitized. Elbow smashes and knees are just as much "combat" as wrist locks and armbars are.

    One of the most popular bunkai guys in the Shotokan scene explaining some of the bunkai of that kata you just classified as sanitized. It's very much combat-oriented, not at all "sanitized" at all in my mind, but it's still that Shotokan-y feel of "charge them and smash things" instead of jiu-jitsu-ish.

     
  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Circular can mean different things in different systems. So I guess understanding what it means in goju would be a good place to start. I don’t have an answer for that.
     
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  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Somebody just had to go there didn't they!!:)
     
  5. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    The first video has circular elements, but not nearly as much as say a Kung Fu form. The Shotokan form, not so much.
     
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  6. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

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    Some say... both styles have linear and circular techniques (with each emphasizing one moreso), but that it moreso applies to strategy and overall approach in application (that perhaps linear means more directness, force, here to there; circular meaning more redirection and utilising body movement around your opponent).

    But potentially off topic territory!

    Even a straight reverse punch is a series many many circles/spirals acting together in order to direct the linear force of a punch (circles at hips/waist, shoulder, elbow, wrist pronation).

    Again, off topic, disregard as you wish![​IMG]
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That's what I saw too. Some things have to be done in circular motion because that's the most efficient way to produce results. For me circular would be more optional for example a punch can be linear or circular but both are still efficient punches.

    Circular movements consists of redirects and continuation of energy flow that can then be used to strike or grab.. Linear movements consist of starting at one point, stopping and then going to the next point. The closer the movement gets to a 360 degree circle and the number of techniques within the system that do this, then the more I would be willing to call that system "Circular". Circular systems tend to build their fighting philosophy on circular movement. Linear systems tend to build their fighting philosophy on linear movement.

    The first video had circular elements but I would still call it a linear form. If most of the forms are similar then I would call it a linear system with circular elements.
     
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  8. Eric Damon Rapier

    Eric Damon Rapier Orange Belt

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    I see the circular emphasis on movement in Goju Ryu. It seems to me that Goju Ryu uses centrifugal force to add extra power behind strikes and blocks. It registers in my head at least that it has similar perspectives as Aikido. I'm gonna research in hopes of broadening my understanding.
     

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