The Centerline Principle of Strength & Power

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by TMA17, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. jlq

    jlq Green Belt

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    If it is Bas, the problem starts way before the arm wrap...

    ;)
     
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  2. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    And if you want to get really fancy step in with a solid cheun. Not only does that make it difficult for him to pivot, you are covering against his other hand, while you tak his balance and "trap" that limb. He now either has to work against his own body (not a good choice),or t-step away, in order to recover, thus losing initiative.
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    - The red punches with his left.
    - The blue punches with his right.

    At this particular moment, who is protecting the center-line?

    1. Red?
    2, Blue?
    3. Both?

    Do both share the same center-line?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  4. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    ^^^^ At that particular moment, blue has "taken the line." He is on the centerline and red is not. That is Wing Chun 101.
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Take the center line in a clinch.
     
  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Are you saying if A is in B's front door then A is on B's center-line even A's center-line and B's center-line may merge as one?

    At 1.02 in the following clip, who has controlled over the other's center-line while

    - A's arms wraps around B's waist, and
    - B's arms wrap around A's upper body?

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I'm interested in the connection between WC center-line and clinch.
     
  8. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    To answer the first question I believe you saying that blue has controlled the center line because the matter of his attack clearly forced red to miss. Having control of the center line isn't just about being in a dominant position, for lack of a better term. It's also about having Disturbed in one way or another your opponent Center / balance.

    You can do this through striking as we see in red versus blue and you can do this via grappling as we see in the clinch video. As an example I would say I control the center if I apply as successful arm bar takedown on my opponent. This is because my personal Center Line, the center mine plain, and my opponents Center or three distinctly different things. My centerline can face, and attack my oppoent's center 360 around him. His centerline can this be facing away from or perpendicular to me. This is part of what "fighting on the blind side" is all about.

    So tl;Dr, controlling the centerline is really, imo, about me maintaining control of my center while disrupting the opponents at the same time. If I do not disrupt my opponents but I successfully protect my Center I have not controlled the Centerline I simply defended it. I break it down this way because two opponents cannot simultaneously control the same object / position
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    How about the symmetry?

    For example,

    - A's right Tan Shou is inside of B's left punch. B's right Tan Shou is inside of A's left punch.
    - A's arms wrap around B's waist. B's arms wrap around A's head.

    A's chest is facing to B's chest. B's chest is facing to A's chest.
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    A fifty/fifty position?
     
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    i assume they are just parralel theories.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This is why I believe that "arm wrap" can make the WC center-line principle less meaningful.

    When

    - A has over hook on B, and
    - B also has under hook on A,

    it's a 50-50 position. Both A's free arm and B's free arm can punch on each other equally. At this moment, whoever has his free arm inside the other person's free arm will have advantage.

     
  13. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    But is seems to me that you are contradicting yourself. One could say, that inside is equal to outside and outside is equal to inside with regard to elbow position. Who has the advantage will depend on how their elbow pressure training was conducted. For example, the outside elbow could easily Jum (sink/compress) the inside elbow out of the way enroute to punching his face...just as easily as the inside elbow could Tan (wedge/disperse) the outside elbow enroute to punching, etc.
    IMO.
     

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