Techniques?

[Bob Hubbard]

I saw something like this in the Kenpo forum, thought maybe we could do one too.

How about a walk thru and technical discussion on various techniques?

Us life-long whitebelts need all the help we can get.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

I was going on at great length while teaching my son last night about the value of the (a)live hand and where it should be, that it shouldn't be perfectly still, and how I like it when my opponent plants it somewhere accessible and I can keep dinging it. ("Technique" can be construed widely!) I keep my live hand in the center of my chest, palm usually more-or-less toward my chest or the floor, but in slight motion, with occasional larger forays just to keep them guessing. I often work with people in other FMA who hold it out to the side, about at their shoulder but slightly lower, palm facing me. I circle to that side and claim it with an abanico or 12.

 

[arnisandyz]

I like to keep my alive hand close to centerline as well. although I do find it moving quite a bit (it is suppose to be alive). Sometimes it creeps up to the elbow of the weapon hand so it can come into action quicker (similar to silat), other times it is in movement with the weapon hand for timing and rythmn or even to draw another blade (like sinawali), sometimes it comes upwhen the weapon goes down and viceversa (like banda banda) but I like having a home for my hand to come back to.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

Isometimes it comes upwhen the weapon goes down and viceversa (like banda banda)

I forgot about that! Of course I do the same for some such techniques.

but I like having a home for my hand to come back to.

Yes, that's well put--it "defaults" back there. I find that other positions either leave it vulnerable or take it out of action, like a fencer's "other" hand.

Does anyone use a significantly different position?

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

I like to keep my alive hand close to centerline as well. although I do find it moving quite a bit (it is suppose to be alive). Sometimes it creeps up to the elbow of the weapon hand so it can come into action quicker (similar to silat), other times it is in movement with the weapon hand for timing and rythmn or even to draw another blade (like sinawali), sometimes it comes upwhen the weapon goes down and viceversa (like banda banda) but I like having a home for my hand to come back to.

I've noticed that sometimes it looks like you're slapping yourself with your live hand. Is this intentional, or is it simply the way you happen to be moving that hand in conjunction with the rest of your movements?

Cthulhu

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Cthulhu



I've noticed that sometimes it looks like you're slapping yourself with your live hand. Is this intentional, or is it simply the way you happen to be moving that hand in conjunction with the rest of your movements?

Cthulhu

Sometimes you don't really think about it, like walking when you sway your hands back and forth. There are some tactical reasons, like assisting a witik or pulling through a lobtik. Sometimes for rebound, sometimes so I know where my hand is (if its slapping my chest its not dangling out somewhere. Probably mainly for rythym. try walking without moving you hands!!!

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisandyz


Sometimes you don't really think about it, like walking when you sway your hands back and forth. There are some tactical reasons, like assisting a witik or pulling through a lobtik. Sometimes for rebound, sometimes so I know where my hand is (if its slapping my chest its not dangling out somewhere. Probably mainly for rythym. try walking without moving you hands!!!

You know, now that I read your response, I think you've already explained it to me before. Dopey me.

I tend to try to keep my live hand at centerline, resting lightly on my chest. This isn't for any other reason then survival...if I let my live hand 'hang out', arnisandyz or my other instructor will whack it with a stick!

They're so mean.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by arnisador

I keep my live hand in the center of my chest, palm usually more-or-less toward my chest or the floor..... I often work with people in other FMA who hold it out to the side, about at their shoulder but slightly lower, palm facing me.r 12. [/B]

I totally agree with you on palm facing in. all it takes is a blade to traval across the inside wrist to realize why. Better to keep vitals in protected, it doesnt make it any faster palm out. I have seem the same thing with tournament fighters (palm out), I think they get use to only stick and not enough blade.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

I totally agree with you on palm facing in. all it takes is a blade to traval across the inside wrist to realize why. Better to keep vitals in protected, it doesnt make it any faster palm out.

For me it's a matter of comfort as much as anything else--palm out feels awkward. For a while I worried that it might be faster if my palm was already out but I've long since stopped worrying about it. It just feels right. For knife work I might well want to be blocking with the back of my forearm anyway so it's well-positioned if that's how I go. But really, it's just a natural spot and position for me.

In Isshin-ryu Karate, the first art I really studied, there were formal moves that had the hand facing straight up with the thumb along the sternum, fingers up and palm facing directly sideways (like a parry brought all the way in). It was to "protect the heart". I sometimes find myself doing that although I haven't studied the art in 20 years!

Your comment makes me think of a FMA instructor with whom I recently worked out. He would block the knife palm-out as he felt that was a more natural blocking motion then quickly flip it over to palm in, back of forearm along the opponent's arm, to better control the blade against a lower number three or four across the midsection. Every time he'd block a high number one or two it'd be palm out then a quick flip of the wrist. On the one hand I agree that the palm-out block is more natural--a basic reaction--but I found flipping it like that awkward and would rather work on developing my ability to block it with the back of the forearm right off, as we do in some drills.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador

On the one hand I agree that the palm-out block is more natural--a basic reaction--but I found flipping it like that awkward and would rather work on developing my ability to block it with the back of the forearm right off, as we do in some drills.

Perhaps one way you could train that is to do hubud with knives...on the first beat, instead of a simple slapping parry motion, turn your wrist so you connect with the back of the wrist/arm.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisandyz]

Another thing I like about palm-in is that when you do go palm-out (to check an angle one for example) you get a nice condensed energy with the wrist rotation similar to an abiniko strike with a stick. I have seen people that do palm out and the tend to push like a palm heel strike vs a quick condensed slap block.

The Sayocs even do this with a dagger. A thrust may come along at angle six (modern arnis 6) and they will be holding the knife palm-in. When they parry with the knife they rotate it counter clockwise rotating outward (your knife is in the left hand) to deflect the strike to the outside, this is the same energy. If they catch it on the other side, the rotation would be clockwise, like using the outside of your forarm if emptyhand.

"On the one hand I agree that the palm-out block is more natural--a basic reaction--but I found flipping it like that awkward and would rather work on developing my ability to block it with the back of the forearm right off, as we do in some drills."...

This is basically like the abiniko. You get some extra energy from wrist snap almost like a double slap block with one hand. Back of the forearm is good, but I find it difficult to deliver a large amount of force needed to deflect a strong attack. Perhaps that is why the person you mentioned is doing both. A quick slap (palm out) to deflect, then forearm out to feel and pass. I think forearm out its used more for positioning and sensitivity. You can also do the opposite, start out forearm out and flip to palm out (either to create space or grab ) In short, I think its good to do and train both!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu


Perhaps one way you could train that is to do hubud with knives...on the first beat, instead of a simple slapping parry motion, turn your wrist so you connect with the back of the wrist/arm.

Funny you should mention that...I was doing that exactly in hubbud last night at JKD and had to make a conscious effort to do it as the instructor was showing it.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

Another thing I like about palm-in is that when you do go palm-out (to check an angle one for example) you get a nice condensed energy with the wrist rotation similar to an abiniko strike with a stick.

I almost wrote that it has that "reverse punch" feel to it but didn't! Yes, I agree.

This is basically like the abiniko. You get some extra energy from wrist snap almost like a double slap block with one hand. Back of the forearm is good, but I find it difficult to deliver a large amount of force needed to deflect a strong attack. Perhaps that is why the person you mentioned is doing both. A quick slap (palm out) to deflect, then forearm out to feel and pass. I think forearm out its used more for positioning and sensitivity. You can also do the opposite, start out forearm out and flip to palm out (either to create space or grab )

Lots of interesting points here. I am going to have to re-think my position on this one.