taijiquan vs. wing chun

[SwedishChef]

Yes, since no art is undefeatable and is determined by the level of the individuals skill, I would say simply put an advanced Taijiquan practitioner against a beginning Wing Chun student, and there ya go. But then again if you reverse that, you'd get the same result, but in the WC'ers favor :asian:
Ahhh, but what if you put together two practitoners of equal time in training you ask? Again that would be determined by the individuals skill. So you'd probably get different results with different individuals. Hope ya get my drift.

Franco

My reason for the thread was just to see if taiji had an answer to WCs close range things. It would seem that it does. I've seen some example clips since first posting too.

I think most of us know about WCs non-chain attacks, which are very effective, no disrespect.

 

[KungFuGrrrl]

Not
Tai-Chi and Wing-Chun, in my opinion, are actually very similar. Of course there are differences, but both have extremely powerful strikes, heavy reliance on a "chi-sau" type exercise, and tend to not to kick high. Tai-Chi moves seem more "natural" to execute, with Wing-Chun being very non-natural and was difficult for me when starting it.

My feeling is TCC and WC compliment one another....when I would practice blindfolded chi sau, my Sifu and teachers say they could see my TCC coming out and I actually did better against my oppponent while I was blind folded .....It seems I worked with the energy more.... with eyes open I tend to anticipate...

(I have been involved in MA for 10 years) I have a bit of disability...ruptured disc.....) I dont know why it sais white belt under my name.... will have to check into that.. Im obviously new here.

 

[7starmantis]

(I have been involved in MA for 10 years) I have a bit of disability...ruptured disc.....) I dont know why it sais white belt under my name.... will have to check into that.. Im obviously new here.

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[dmax999]

Someone above mentioned that WC and TCC people of same level would do just as well. I have a difference of opinion there. If you have two people of equal experience the less the two have the better the WC person will do. Inside of six months of rigirous practice I would bet a WC guy could do well against a new black belt of most other styles (obviously not all). Inside of six months a TCC person would be about as effective as a fish flopping around if they solely relied on their TCC.

However, I think over the long run TCC people can always improve where other arts tend you leave you there after you have "mastered" all of the techniques. TCC is difficult to learn, and more difficult to find a good qualified teacher. But I believe that TCC can be the undefeatable style, it just requires the skill of the user to be undefeatable. The only weakness of TCC I have yet to find is the lack of skill of the user. It seems to be designed to work that way.

 

[Flying Crane]

Someone above mentioned that WC and TCC people of same level would do just as well. I have a difference of opinion there. If you have two people of equal experience the less the two have the better the WC person will do. Inside of six months of rigirous practice I would bet a WC guy could do well against a new black belt of most other styles (obviously not all). Inside of six months a TCC person would be about as effective as a fish flopping around if they solely relied on their TCC.

However, I think over the long run TCC people can always improve where other arts tend you leave you there after you have "mastered" all of the techniques. TCC is difficult to learn, and more difficult to find a good qualified teacher. But I believe that TCC can be the undefeatable style, it just requires the skill of the user to be undefeatable. The only weakness of TCC I have yet to find is the lack of skill of the user. It seems to be designed to work that way.

I think you have made some valid points. I believe that the internal arts like Tai Chi CHuan and Baqua have a much greater ultimate potential than most of the other arts, but it is much more difficult, and takes much longer, to reach the level of potential. I think that most people never reach that kind of level, and their ability to use Tai Chi in a fighting encounter is very limited at best. Meantime, a good solid training in an art like Wing Chun will give you fighting skills much more quickly. It is only after the 20-40 year mark that the Tai Chi person, if they had a good teacher, trained hard, was insightful and somewhat gifted, begins to reach the potential that Tai Chi offers. Problem for most people is, it can be difficult to stick to it when you see little improvement year after year.

 

[bcbernam777]

One uprooting shot is worth a dozen chain punches. Wing Chunners like to intercept, angle and drive their chung chois in with advancing steps. To counter it:

* Learn how to take a shot. A chung choi (WC chain punch) is not really a very powerful punch, but if you have no full contact experience it'll still rock you.

* Be aggressive. Stop thinking of taiji as a passive art just because it uses internal training and redirection. You should actively seek to adhere to and strike the opponent, driving forward with quick steps.

* Maintain pun. Too many taiji stylists have a limp pun. Pun is taiji's primary bridging technique. It needs to be forceful without being tense.

* Learn and use shuai (throwing) applications. Good Taiji shuai is at a closer rang than WC equivalents. Smother him and chuck him over your hip. Use Hold Golden Ball for a wrestling-style over-under and flip him on his back.

* Vary your frame. Taiji techniques can happen in large and small frames. Wing Chun is mostly a small frame art. Widen your stance and movements for major blows and to cover distance quickly. If you can do a fast step in a wide frame, you can run over a small framed opponent.

The general tone and information in your post is good however i would have to repectfully disagree with the comment about the WC punch lacking power, the wing chun punch contains a great deal of power, it is up to the individual practicioner however to train that power, the power in a WC punch is not like an iron bar, its like a whip that penetrates and hurts inside, even from a shorter distance.

 

[dmax999]

Flying Crane,

You worded my statement better then I could have. I do disagree on the 20-40 year time part. It only takes a couple years to get good at fighting with Tai Chi. The problem is finding the correct teacher for those couple years. Where I am I can't seem to find a class that will have push hands practice on any kind of regular schedule (Its usually 15 mins once every 4 months, no exaggeration)

I think after a year someone could learn the Yang long form, another year of push hands doing it two hours a week, and third year sparring for two hours a week would develop a Tai Chi fighter. Find a Tai Chi class in the USA that will actually train fighting and go there. Most are too afraid of scarring off the crowd that comes just for health reasons and almost refuse to acknolodge TC as a fighting art.

 

[Flying Crane]

Flying Crane,

You worded my statement better then I could have. I do disagree on the 20-40 year time part. It only takes a couple years to get good at fighting with Tai Chi. The problem is finding the correct teacher for those couple years. Where I am I can't seem to find a class that will have push hands practice on any kind of regular schedule (Its usually 15 mins once every 4 months, no exaggeration)

I think after a year someone could learn the Yang long form, another year of push hands doing it two hours a week, and third year sparring for two hours a week would develop a Tai Chi fighter. Find a Tai Chi class in the USA that will actually train fighting and go there. Most are too afraid of scarring off the crowd that comes just for health reasons and almost refuse to acknolodge TC as a fighting art.

I agree with you about the ability of a Tai Chi person to become a fighter more quickly, but I think the true potential, meaning a really solid understanding of the chi flow and useage of chi flow is very subtle and takes much longer. Any martial art can become useful more quickly if you train in a manner to make is such. However, I think there is a danger in turning Tai Chi into an external art. While it can work in that manner, I think you cannot reach the art's true potential in that manner.

 

[arnisador]

I think that those who say the Tai Chi stylist would likely position himself to avoid being on the receiving end of such a barrage are on the right track...but as we all know, it doesn't always work that way! One a chain punch attack is started, stepping off-line or jumping way back are the best approachs, I believe. Does Tai Chi support either of these defenses?

 

[brothershaw]

I think the key is to find a tai chi school where in addition to the form and mechanics of tai chi they also show you how to strike, footwork, and have some degree of sparring. Otherwise its like magical thinking to assume you will be able to deal with an attack if you havent even had to deal with a relatively safe simulation or sparring ( not that anything is a guarantee).
And doing those things doesnt make it external if you use the same internal mechanics to hit the bag as you do moving in the air.
At the 20 year mark in a martial art I would rather be refining my skills and passing them on to others rather than still trying to " get it". Life is way too short.

Besides in the best Shaw Brothers movies the hero never trained longer than a few years b4 he got his revenge anyway.lol.