Tai chi breathing

[Kwanslove]

Kwanslove,

From reading the posts in this thread, it is very clear to me who the fantasist is!!

Very best wishes

Taiji, Dao Yin and Taoism are not called esoteric for no reason. I'm just sticking to what Taiji intended to do.

If I wanted to be a great fighter I would learn Bak Mei not Taiji.

 

[Kwanslove]

what is wutang taiji 13, please?

marlon

Wudang Taiji 13 is the original form of Taiji designed by Zhang San Feng that utilizes the 13 principles. It was later Wudang Priests who created the 108 form. The Wudang Taiji 13 is mostly a spiritual form wasn't ever intended to be martial except in warding off attacks. The Wudang Taiji 108 has more faster moves, more agility and more power expression. Yang Lu Chan after leaving Chen village sought out Wudang Priests to learn the original form of Wudang 108. That's why Yang Styles looks very similar to Wudang 108. It's only when Taiji became very popular did the Chen's find it necessary to promote the idea their ancestor created Taiji although the history of Master Wang coming to their village beating their Kungfu with Taiji did they asked to be taught and aquired it through him. There is an interview of a Chen family memeber admitting their Taiji isn't really Taiji but Taiji modified with Shaolin Kungfu. Wudang Taiji 13 is a mixture of Dao Yin and Shaolin Crane and Snake style but specifically designed with accupuncture incorporated into the movements to facilitate qi flow to every part of the body throughout the form. It's a very short form of 60 moves only. And it has right and left side counter moves not just rightsided and it doesnt go hard and then soft and then fast and then slow like Chen. It has a consistent pace.

People are always afraid of revolution and revolution is simply change my friend. I am a humble person but this subject will draw alot of anger and resentment becuase some people just don't know what to do with themselves. Change is painful but good for Taiji because so many people have got it all wrong. It's a shame we have to go to so many sources before we get it right. It's like going through and maze so many paths lead to dead ends. Some people are stuck at those dead ends believing they are out of the maze and some just give up completely. Chinese kungfu can be a maze if you don't get to the root of spirituality and why these forms were created in the first place. You have to keep in mind all knowledge of mankind started at some point by spiritual gurus who realized something and shared that with the rest of mankind. Secular people are competitive and don't like to share and put their claims on knowledge they don't own and they like to confuse if it keeps them ahead of you. Secular people are concerned with rank, status, heirarchy and staying ahead of the next guy. The spiritual side isn't like that they give infomation freely and selflessly and abandon all personal ambitions.The purpose of these esoterics arts are to elevate the spirit in men seeking divine intervention. Enlighten ones who give up their faith in heirarchies and power domains. Chen Tuan, Lao Tzu and Zhang San Feng are good examples of people who did just that through their creations of Liu He Ba Fa (Chen Tuan), Dao Yin and Dao Te Ching (Lao Tzu) Taijiquan(Zhang San Feng). Good blessings.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And Xue Sheng,

You lean to hard upon your accomplishments and take too much pride in your progress to have an open mind. Just because you know how to fight using Taiji doesn't mean anything. Just because you've studied with a Who's Who of Taiji doesn't mean nothing either. Truth has no bearing upon status and heirarchies. Just like the Taiji teacher I've meet above you may have been privellenged to studied under some great names and get a solid foundation in techniques that doesn't make you the final authority. Truth is the final authority. Taiji like any soft skills combined with some hard training and good technique is very superior to many other approaches in fighting. My personal belief and encounters with different styles and seeing them in action no external style or internal styles is better than the other but a combination of both is superior. Such styles like Bak Mei which using virtually attack as defense and using external and internal prinicples is the most superior in fighting. Yang did have some hard fighting behind him and just because he was only 21 doesn't mean he wasn't a competent fighter. At that age in Ancient China where fighting with fists was upmost many young people could fight very well at the age. And Yang had to know some fighting in order to grasp Chen style better than anyone in the village and beat all of them. What kind of logic are you using? Are saying that just because you who you are that makes you right? Are you saying this matter of the origin of Taiji is closed because Xue Sheng has a great background and is right?

The origin of Taiji important to getting to understand why breathing is essential. Essential means to fully get the intended benefit of Taiji you have to get qi/oxygen in the lungs, blood and to all of the cells. The intake of oxygen combined with the movements push the oxygen through qi blockages into the ligaments and connective tissue. Also the breathing has the ability to slow the thoughts and bring the mind into serenity. This is what is meant by the rising of Shen or spirit also the kundalini spirit in Yogic traditions. The Yi or mind intent directs the qi/oxygen to go to places in the body not normally traveled to removed blockages and also create an inner alchemy that transforms the body from the lungs, heart, arteries, connective tissues and also physcoloigical well being. The intake of breath done properly comes the mind and relaxes the body all over. You recieve a feeling of warm tingling all over the body from the root to the all the extremeties and even in the brain. The qi penetrates the central nervous system and goes to the brain that sends information to the pancreas that creates hormones for relaxation and peacefulness. Many have not ever practiced this Temple style of Taiji only the secular Taiji that used mainly for fighting and health. Secular Taiji totally disregards the spiritual origins of not only Taiji but also Baqua which descended from circle walking meditation. Secular structures owe their whole foundation to the spiritual gurus who sacrificed their personal lives and ambitions to pursue the supernatural then harness that power, cultivate it and transmit it to the rest of mankind. This happened not only in China but India, Africa, Greece, North America and all over the world were Shamanistic peopole took the knowledge of the unknown and developed the spiritual side of man and thus elevated us from a slouch over primate into an upright intelligent creature.

What I find interesting here is that you either have not read what I said or you do not understand what I said because your response is to things I have not said. example; I never told you who I have or have not trained with now have I?

I have however asked you who you trained with to which you have not replied I did read the mention of a taiji teacher to oxy but that did not answer my question either. Who was your teacher who was his teacher how long have you trained taiji?

To simplify and clarify I said I do not know the exact source of taiji, nor does anyone else, but it is pretty much accepted it was likely not a lone Taoist. But you seem to have information that no one else has and I have even told you that you should get in touch with the people in China that are researching this so you can share your information with them and I even offered to give you a couple of names to contact.

The only thing truly known at this point about taiji is that the taiji that the majority of us do today comes from the Chen family and if trained properly is a very effective martial art that needs no additional style training to make it effective as a martial art.

You also seem to completely ignore historic fact and rely on hear-say, myth and fantasy.

You all over the board here in responses and yet you never address the issue presented to you.

You attack points that were not made and continue to make statements that are false.

And again as to Yang Luchan, I never made any comment at all about his level or skill at Long Fist did I? I just said at 21 he was so impressed by Chen he decided it was what he wanted to train.

As to Luchan only training those with experience in external styles again I ask you then who trained his sons before he did and why do no other members of the Yang family appear to require this, Heck why do no other members of ANY taiji family appear not to require that anyone take a hard style first? You may want to contact the Yang family as well and tell them you have information about their history that they are unaware of as well. It is farily easy to contact them, they have their own webpage. http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/splash

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wudang Taiji 13 is the original form of Taiji designed by Zhang San Feng

Again, which one, assuming he actually existed?

There is an interview of a Chen family memeber admitting their Taiji isn't really Taiji but Taiji modified with Shaolin Kungfu.

Please tell us which Chen family member said this, better yet point us in the direction of the actual interview.

Wudang Taiji 13 is a mixture of Dao Yin and Shaolin Crane and Snake style

Interesting, likely wrong, but interesting.

Have you ever been to Wudang, have you ever been to China?

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK now I am more confused by this

I'm just sticking to what Taiji intended to do.

If I wanted to be a great fighter I would learn Bak Mei not Taiji.

You say Zhang Sanfeng designed taiji who if he lived it was likely in either the Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368) or the Sung Dynasty (969-1126) or the Southern Sung Dynasty (1127-1279) and even though someone did make a reference that would put him in the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) for any of the histories to work he can't be from the Ming Dynasty.

But Bak Mei is decidedly Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) so are you now saying that no one knew how to fight before Bak Mei. And then all of the documented fights by non-Bak Mei people did not happen. And then Taijiquan, baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Tongbeiquan, Wing Chun, (to name only a few) and for that matter the style you claim made Yang style a fighting style Changchuan are not good at fighting?

The fights of Chen Fake never happened nor any of Yang Banhou, and Li Cun, yi!?

Dong Hai Chuan was no good and Sun Lu Tang never fought anyone is that it? Only Bak Mei is for fighting

 

[bigfootsquatch]

Kwanslove,

From reading the posts in this thread, it is very clear to me who the fantasist is!!

Very best wishes

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sorry I dont really have anything to add to this conversation; oxy, xue, and east winds know much more about tai chi than I.