"Tactical" rifle choice

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by gozanryu, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Spookey

    Spookey Purple Belt

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    Dear All,

    Based on the previous posts I have a few varying comments. They are as follows:

    When looking for a medium to long range rifle for hunting or sniping purposes I would highly support the Remington 700 wearing a Nikkon scope.

    For what I consider a "tactical rifle" (Good moderate range accuracy coupled with rapid shooting ability and maneuverable enough for CQB with adequate stopping power), my vote goes to the HK G-3.

    If you are looking for a good dependable rifle that meets the above listed standards but it in the average middle class price range...
    Ruger Mini-30 (7.62x39)

    To those that are simply looking for a low end, dependable, tactical plinker; I would recommend a trip to the local pawn shop for a good Chinese knockoff of either the SKS or the AK-47!

    God Bless,
    Spookey
     
  2. gozanryu

    gozanryu Orange Belt

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    Chad, see above post, I got a Rem & and shortened it. Zeiss fixed 6X
     
  3. bushi jon

    bushi jon Green Belt

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    Armalite ar10t .308 or any other size that they have but not 223
     
  4. dearnis.com

    dearnis.com Master Black Belt

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    Cool; I had read into your post that that was what you were looking at; didn't realize you had gotten it. I'm sure it shoots....what does it weigh in at?
     
  5. gozanryu

    gozanryu Orange Belt

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    Its between 7 and 8 lbs now. (Estimate) I might lighten the stock, but most likely not. The thing is a drill, I have a load using the 165 gr. Sierra HPBT that shoots 3 through a .50 hole. As usual, the equipment is much better than my ability to utilize it.
     
  6. dearnis.com

    dearnis.com Master Black Belt

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    As it should be. Related to this thread I am working up a Cooper concept scout/pseudoscout (Don't know if the final will be close enough to the ideal; it mak make it); 7.62 on an enfield action. Accuracy was very good at 50 yards (1 hole); 100 yards hard to say; high wind was flexing my target backer way too much to tell. Some feeding issues to resolve, but comes in right around 37", overall weight about 7.3 lbs (with scope and extras but unloaded); 10 round mag.
     
  7. AC_Pilot

    AC_Pilot Blue Belt

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    For me there is but one tactical, all around Main Battle Rifle: The HK 91 A3


    I have other .308s but the HK is very shagadelic :)

    As an alternative the original Belgian FN FALs or the Springfield Armoury copies are cool. Beware most other welded/cobbled up HKs and FALs.. do your research by visiting on line gun forums first.
     
  8. GAB

    GAB 3rd Black Belt

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    Hi all,

    I feel the 308 is a very good round for the military and for the civilian population also.

    But for a tactical rifle I, again I believe you are hard pressed to beat the USA military weapons that are the 223 round that have come out in the last few years. Accuracy and weight to carry also the amount you can carry.

    Numerous reasons I could go into it if asked, but at this post I will let this suffice.

    Regards, Gary
     
  9. AC_Pilot

    AC_Pilot Blue Belt

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    For general purpose everday use I have:


    Ruger Mini 14s in stainless steel, with folding stocks and converted to M14 sights, etc.. with many quality Thermold and other 20/30/40 rd mags.

    AR15s in every configuration, CAR and Ultra Match, including 9mm and 45 ACP pistol calibered CARs. Lots of versatility here, the pistol calibers are excellent for night time shooting and night vision use as the muzzle flash is less.

    For my .223 weapons I exclusively use SS109/M8555 steel penetrator rounds.

    I also have several tricked out Chinese AK56s semis, these bridge the gap between the .223 and the .308 nicely

    The HK .308 is what I would use if I needed to defend against unknown threats, say persons in vehicles, etc.. this is a reality out at my remote forest land, off a rural hwy. I have limited this possibility by tactically installing heavy duty steel gates, making any criminal tresspass, by necessity, a pedestrian activity :supcool:
     
  10. dmax999

    dmax999 Blue Belt

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    The SS109, in .223, being used in an AR-15 with a 9:1 or tighter twist will be more leathal then any .308 (Except when big game hunting is concerned) This is due to strange physics that was not intended when that round was developed.

    In addition, a good AR-15 out of the box is nearly impossible to be beat for accuracy and consistancy without going to a bolt action. Yes any rifle can be built more accurate, but then its a question of how much and how often you need to refit parts to keep accuracy.

    The only real advantage of a .308 is at extreme ranges and against vehicles.

    Of course it all depends on what you really want to use it for. Just putting holes in paper? Get what you like, it will be better then anything someone else suggests.
     
  11. DoxN4cer

    DoxN4cer Purple Belt

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    There's more to it than that. The main advantage to the .308 is that if you hit it, it's going down. There is a vaccuum created behind the round, due to the shape of the round and the velocity at which it travels. This vaccuum is what creates the cavernous wound cavity and gaping exit wound associated with the .308. 5.56mm/.223 (essentially a suped up .22) isn't shaped like that (the rear of the progectile is truncated) and doesn't do what the .308 does.

    Tim Kashino
     
  12. RBaddorf

    RBaddorf Green Belt

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    FN LAR Paratrooper Model, Type 50.63



    [​IMG]

    TECHNICAL DATA : FN LAR PARA, TYPE 50-63 CALIBER 7.62 x 51mm (.308 win) OPERATION Adjustable gas system BARREL 4-Groove, right-hand twist, 1 turn in 12 inches SIGHTS Flip up aperture rear sight, post front sight MAGAZINE CAPACITY 20 rounds OVERALL LENGTH 39 inches OVERALL LENGTH
    WITH STOCK FOLDED 29 inches WEIGHT, EMPTY8.3 pounds

    In the 80s I had a Springfield copy of this with a match receiver. Unfortunatly I had to have a friend sell it for me while I was in Okinawa to make a house payment in AZ one month. It was one of the best shooting rifles I have ever had, and some day I would really like to pick up another one. Can't beat it (or at least not very easily).

    Take care,

    Ron
     
  13. Gray Phoenix

    Gray Phoenix Green Belt

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    Although I have adopted the Front Sight montra of "Any gun will do if you will do", for light quick and clean, I prefer the M4. Its light enough for marching through Gods green Earth, but retains the accuracy and power of the short range sniper. However, when the time comes to put on the black pajamas and go on a house call, HK MP5-10. Light and quiet, but oooh boy 10mm, yummy.:mp5:
     
  14. gozanryu

    gozanryu Orange Belt

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    Respect as it applies. The .223 pales in comparison to the 308 in stopping power in ant scenario. The 223 is always a compromise. Thats why we (the US) are experimenting with .280 (7mm) bullets now, to get bullet weight. A 55 or 65 grain projectile at 2500 FPS is a joke compared to 150 grain projectile at similar speeds.
     
  15. dmax999

    dmax999 Blue Belt

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    The 223 is hardly a joke or a compromise. It tends to fragment in a target long before a 308, which means "winging" a target in the leg or such will have a better chance of severing an artery. Both rounds will likely be nearly 100% leathal in a torso shot.

    Anyways, anyone using a 223 will always get more rounds on target over a specific time then with a 308, due to improved accuracy, reduced recoil, and better reliability. All reasons the US Army switched, and competition shooters are winning with them over the 308.

    308 is still great, just no longer the best there is.
     
  16. gozanryu

    gozanryu Orange Belt

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    dmax, i was not inferring that the .223 is a "joke". All centerfire fifle cartridges are effective against human targets. There is substantial evidence that .30 caliber rifles are MUCH more effective. The specific reasoning for adaptation of the .223 cartridge is A: the foot soldier can carry more rounds for the same weight, B: a lighter round creates a lighter weapon. There has never been an argument about the wound value. .308 is superior. I bring you back to my aforementioned fact. Special forces are currently (SOG) evaluating the M-4 platform (M-16, AR-af etc) in the .280 caliber SPECIFICALLY because the troops in the field are dissatisfied with the "knock down" and "stopping power" of the existing 5.56 (223). The .280 cartridge is in existence, and already available. It is a 100 grain bullet. Not trying to argue, just stating the facts. Ask most guys who operate out there, they will tell you. Hell, I know guys who still wont deploy without the M-14!123
     

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