Sword and cape?

[arnisador]

Is there a special name for fighting with a sword in one hand and a cape or coat in the other, as is often seen in movies featuring fencing? Was it just considered a variant of sword-and-dagger?

 

[Samurai]

there is a special method and practice for sword and cape fighting. Many of the period fencing manuels have sword and cape techniques in them.

Look at this sight for more information from the period manuels.

This is a PDF document. Look for the chapter called "RAPIER AND CLOAK" http://www.thehaca.com/pdf/OldSwordPlay.pdf



THE EXILES



thanks
Jeremy Bays

 

[Despairbear]

I was going to site the same work..... Beat me to it. If you ever have a chance give cloak and rapier a chance, the randomness in the movement of the cloak can add an interesting element to the sparring.


Depsair Bear

 

[moromoro]

i think it was always rapier and cloak not sword and cloak but not sure??
if it is a sword could you tell me what type of sword

thanks

terry

 

[Despairbear]

Originally posted by moromoro
i think it was always rapier and cloak not sword and cloak but not sure??
if it is a sword could you tell me what type of sword

Last time I checked a rapier was a sword (grin). As I recall the use of the cloak as a off-hand weapon was fairly common and tended to be paired with what ever weapon you had be it knife, rapier, broadsword, broken bottle, sharp stick, angry gerbil, etc. A good paralell to modern knife fighting would be to use a decent weight jacket (such as a leather jacket or trenchcoat) as an off-hand weapon in a very similer manner to a cloak.


Despair Bear

 

[moromoro]

the term rapier was always used when refering to it as a weapon using the term sword as you did may confuse a lot of people, i.e what type of sword???

also rapier and cloak was used depending on what weapon your opponent was using, i.e if he had a great sword the double edge broadsword the cloak may prove to be more of a liability in parriying but clould be used as a form of deception i.e throwing the cloak over him ( from L'ARTE LA SPADA, MIESTRO FRANCESCO ALFIERI, 1653)

A good paralell to modern knife fighting would be to use a decent weight jacket (such as a leather jacket or trenchcoat) as an off-hand weapon in a very similer manner to a cloak.


no neccesariry, it all depends on what weapom the opponent has and also his skill, you could easily penetrate a leather jacket and or a trenchcoat but you could always pick the right timing and then throw the coat over him and then follow through with your cuts, slashes and stabs...


thanks

terry

 

[Despairbear]

Perhaps you missunderstand what I mean when I talk about using a cloak as an off hand weapon. If you try to "parry" any blade with a "cloak" you are going to get maimed, badly. The idea is to catch the blade with the hanging part of the cloak as it comes in, to divert it away from you. If the blade was to penitrate the cloak all the better as it woudl be far easyer to hinder the weapon by twisting the cloak around the blade "fixing" it onto the cloak, along with a propper couter attack that would end the combat, Also to block the site of your opponet, a swing with the outter edge of the cloak tword the face will either cause the opponet to flinch or will blind him/her as the cloak whips them in the eyes.



Despair Bear

 

[arnisador]

Do you pronounce 'rapier' in the French style as ra-peer (English style)?

 

[Old Warrior]

No - its ray pea ur

 

[moromoro]

despairbear

The idea is to catch the blade with the hanging part of the cloak as it comes in, to divert it away from you. If the blade was to penitrate the cloak all the better as it woudl be far easyer to hinder the weapon by twisting the cloak around the blade "fixing" it onto the cloak, along with a propper couter attack that would end the combat, Also to block the site of your opponet, a swing with the outter edge of the cloak tword the face will either cause the opponet to flinch or will blind him/her as the cloak whips them in the eyes.



you mean like a matador and then catch the knife....

your joking,,, your in dreamland if someones holding a jacket and your the attacker you know for sure he is going to try to use the jacket on you,

" If the blade was to penitrate the cloak all the better as it woudl be far easyer to hinder the weapon by twisting the cloak around the blade "fixing" it onto the cloak, along with a propper couter attack that would end the combat"

obviously from this statement i know that you have never been in a real knife fight!! if you have it was with someone with inadequet skill.....

your statement is as ridiculous as saying i can use the cloak to wrap it around the knife figters hand!!!!

total BS man

thanks


terry

 

[Despairbear]

Originally posted by moromoro



you mean like a matador and then catch the knife....

your joking,,, your in dreamland if someones holding a jacket and your the attacker you know for sure he is going to try to use the jacket on you,


obviously from this statement i know that you have never been in a real knife fight!! if you have it was with someone with inadequet skill.....

your statement is as ridiculous as saying i can use the cloak to wrap it around the knife figters hand!!!!

total BS man

thanks


terry

A bit rude arn't we? The forms I am talking about are not my invention, they are the results of vairous schools of melee combat in Europe. Also I am not talknig about disarming some one with a cloat/jacket but about diverting an incoming blade. It is easy to recreate what I am talking about with a few exemtions for safety, have you tried it?


Despair Bear

 

[moromoro]

no, and i dont really understand what you are talking about, do you mean rolling the jacket up on your arm and parrying the knife, if you do this is very dangerous particularly against a skilled knife fighter....

 

[Despairbear]

Well sorta, lets see if I can explain this. You grasp the cloak/coat whatever around the "neck line" with your fist knuckels up. Then you rotate your wrist 180 deg. so that your palm is facing up. Then you bring the draping part of the cloak tword you and over your forarm while turning your wrist 90 deg. so that the back of your hand faces out. Now at this point you should have some cloth around your hand and forarm with a "drape" hanging down on the far side of your arm. Now you have a cloth "shield" that can move in some inseresting ways. Play around with the flips and turn with the outer edge leading out almost like you are swinging a rope with a small weight on the end of it.

The incoming blade should be diverted and slowed down with the "drape" part of the shield, also this is the end you would use to whip your attacker in the eyes. I guess you could try to parry a slash with the portion of your arm that is covered by the fabric but I would not sugest it. Trying to parry the blade on a thrust with your fabric covered arm would no doubt be a really bad idea as I have said earlyer. I would suggest you try this "stlye" out with an old thrift store jacket and a sparring knife. You loose a little on the efect as the sparring knife does not really cut into the fabric, thus you can not really use the fabric as a "brake" (not the right word but I hope you can understand what I mean) when the knife is thrust threw the drape. Give it a try with some friends and and old jacket it can be a lot of fun.


Despair Bear

 

[moromoro]

oh yeah now i see

thanks

terry

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-