styles that are mostly hand based?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by drummingman, Jan 6, 2008.

  1. drummingman

    drummingman Blue Belt

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    what are the styles that are more hand based as opposed to hands and feet? from what i can tell wing chun (even though there are some kicks) and boxing fit this bill, but are there any others?
     
  2. redfang

    redfang Purple Belt

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    I might put kenpo in the hand based category. The majority of the strikes are hand strikes and what kicking there is, tends to be low and practical.
     
  3. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    There are several. What are you looking for?
     
  4. drummingman

    drummingman Blue Belt

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    im looking for something that is good for self defense.
     
  5. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Wing Chun is pretty good. It's easy to find. Bak Mei & Lung Ying are too, but they're not as common as Wing Chun. All have kicks but are not focused on kicking. There's also Hung Ga, CLF, Jow Ga, the Lama family, Hung Fut, Fut Ga, etc... that use plenty of hands & kicks to a degree but don't rely on them. Lots of CMA leg work comes in the way of moving feet & stepping.

    In other words... none of them are TKD or the like.

    American boxing is also really good if you're looking for 100% use ony.
     
  6. green meanie

    green meanie Master Black Belt

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    Boxing. Some kempo styles are predominately striking oriented. There's some kicking but its low level and kicking isn't the main focus of the art. I suppose grappling arts could be considered 'hand based' as well but if you're looking for striking that might not be the way you'd want to go.
     
  7. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    how about weapons? with the exception of steeltoed boots i can't really think off hand(npi) of any practical weapon that does not need to be 'manipulated..?

    i dont know if this counts
     
  8. TKDJUDO

    TKDJUDO Yellow Belt

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    Isn't Jeet Kune Do hand-based ?
     
  9. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    There are low line kicks in jun fan (JKD). Many styles use predominantly hands...Okinawan goju-ryu, isshin-ryu, uechi-ryu stand out among the karate styles. I've noticed in general that the Japanese and Korean forms of karate kick a lot more than their Okinawan cousins.
     
  10. SFC JeffJ

    SFC JeffJ Grandmaster

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    Check out some FMAs. Lots of weapon work but darn good empty hand technique as well.
     
  11. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    My recommendations: Wing Tsun/Chun, Latosa Combat Escrima, Boxing.

    As a person with some leg problems due to injuries, this was a question of mine, too. I've come to the conclusion that all the MAs that I know of are leg based--even if they don't use a lot of kicks. My foundation style is Wing Tsun and we trained footwork to death. And that's just the steps and stances. The advanced leg work opens another whole dimension. My Si-fu may choose to keep his kicks low, but they are incredibly fast, powerful and sophisticated, involving striking, defending, sweeping and trapping movements. Ever hear of "chi-gherk" or sticking legs? He would sometimes say, "Wing Tsun kicks are for fighting the most difficult opponent. The hands are for everyone else".

    My second style is Latosa Escrima. It's great stuff that uses both weapons and empty hands, and has very few kicks. But it's still all about stance, steps, footwork, and angling. Everything flows from that. And, at the moere advanced level, there are all kinds of leg traps, and low foot, shin and knee strikes that come out of the stancework. I also train with another escrimador, Maestro Martin Torres, who like Rene Latosa, was also a boxer. I found out that, even though a street-fighting boxer may never visibly kick you, they can also destroy you with their footwork.

    The bad news for me was learning that there is no easy way around my leg and balance issues. The good news was, whatever my personal limitations, MA training has taken me further than I ever expected. If you also have leg problems, by all means pick a system that avoids high, acrobatic kicking. But be prepared to confront the challenge of legwork--it will always be, literally and figuratively, your foundation!
     
  12. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

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    Hello, Those with boxing skills...are very hard to hit. Those with boxing skills have better timing, better power control, better intincts, more endurance, more actual training,

    Hurts more...getting hit....Want to learn how to fight? ....take boxing!

    ...then learn Judo...

    ..go to a boxing place..tried it and see how hard it is to learn it...after a year...see how many people will not be able to defend against you?

    Boxing is a big KEY..in self-defense!

    Aloha (just my thoughts on this)

    PS: Boxing also teaches the body how to take the hits and builds up to take the punishments after a while...
     
  13. drummingman

    drummingman Blue Belt

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    would you say that usa goju is predominantly hand based?
     
  14. exile

    exile To him unconquered.

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    The ironic thing is, if you look at the forms—which are the repository of the art's technical content—most TKD hyungs have ten times more in the way of hand techs than kicking techs, not much different from karate kata (which the hyungs are largely either copies of or rearrangements of). The 'problem' with the way the OP question is posed is in the word 'based'. You have to distinguish the different uses these TMAs are put to. E.g., the karate-based martial sports are heavily leg-based—check out an 'open' karate tournament and you'll have a hard time convincing yourself that you're not watching a WTF TKD contest; the difference is in the scoring protocol—but in their 'old school' SD applications, TKD and the other karate-based arts rely on the same tried and true hand/arm techs as other street-effective striking MAs: close the distance, control the assailant's upper body, apply maximally damaging strikes to exposed vital areas (throat, temple, collarbone) from a safe position on the attacker's outside, make transitions to the next technique (should one be necessary) by using the previous striking hand to control the assailant so as to set up the next hand strike. Kicks are set-ups for finishing techs, or, in unusual cases where you can get a hard strike to the groin or abdomen (while the assailant is immoblized, ideally), finishing techs themselves, but that's almost always with lower-body targets.

    What I'm getting at is that in actual practical application, TKD is going to be mostly a hand-based technique set—you generally aren't going to be allowed room to use kicks as your first line of defense once the attack is initiated—and that's going to be true probably for all the TMAs, I'd guess.
     
  15. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    It can be and would logically be if you went by their kata. Anecdotally however, the USA goju school I've visited in San Antonio, Texas kicks an awful lot though. That's probably more due to instructor preference than anything else.

    I've pretty much given up on style as a meaningful description of what a class will be like. The only way to tell if a dojo will fit you or not is to actually train there for a few months and see what things are really like. You really can't tell from just a couple of trial classes.

    True about open tournaments. I think if we watch a JKA or even a WKF tournament however, the kumite looks quite different from a WTF match since the emphasis is on landing a lead hand or reverse punch for most fighters.
     
  16. Doc_Jude

    Doc_Jude 3rd Black Belt

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    What do you have available to you (geographically/financially)? Let's go over those & start from there.
     
  17. drummingman

    drummingman Blue Belt

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    what i have near me is wing chun, mma and usa goju karate. i also have TKD and BJJ near me but im not really interested in either one of those to be honest.
    i know that there are a lot of hand techniques in wing chun but i worry that, because of having bad tendinitis in both wrists and arms, that the drills where 2 people bang together their arms would be hard on my arms and wrists. am i right on this?
    here are the links to the schools that im looking at.
    http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com/
    http://www.pilsungmartialarts.com/mma.html
    http://www.shaolinkungfucenter.com/
     
  18. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Well, Okinawan goju has lots of kotekitae, the arm-hardening exercise you are referring to. Definitely you should check with the USA goju school and see if they do the same.
     
  19. Doc_Jude

    Doc_Jude 3rd Black Belt

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    If those are the schools available to you I'd have to go with http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com/

    Though, anyone going by "Sensei Z" sounds a little weird, but if the school is in GM Peter Urban's lineage... tough stuff. That, & the Jujutsu represented on the website looks pretty sound. A little traditional for my tastes, but you're definitely gonna learn something. I say go for that one.
     
  20. drummingman

    drummingman Blue Belt

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    yeah thats my first choice as well. second being the wing chun place.
     

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