stretching:rights and wrongs

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by sweeper

you can stretch a cold muscle, it's just a little risky

I think the problem is more than just risky. When the muscles are warm, they are more pliable and thus can be stretched further. Therefore you can *increase* your range of motion. Isn't that why you want to stretch in the first place?

I agree that you should do cardio exercise to warm the muscles up first. Then do Static Stretching, then Dynamic Stretching, simulating activities that you'll do later. I think that stretching before your workout helps you during the workout. Stretching after your workout, when your muscles are good and pliable helps to increase your range of motion. Both are important. However, I don't have my classes stretch after class for the sake of time and class space. I think many other schools are the same.

Warmups (including stretching), on the other hand, are vitally important to reduce injury so I definitely have them before every class. If your school doesn't do this during the class, I would make sure you do it on your own.

WhiteBirch

 

[artful dodger]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir



It's interesting that this is the party line, but... ever watch gymnasts stretch? They bounce... and they're damned flexible. What I've read is that novice's shouldn't bounce because they don't know how far to go. They should start slow and ease into the stretch. Experience people *can* get a benefit out of the bouncing (Balistic Stretching) if they control it properly.

But I've also seen a lot of gymnasts who aren't yet really flexible injure themselves because theyre trying to do the same bouncy stretches as the ones that are already flexible. If you're already flexible, then bouncing may help you improve even further, but you've got to be at that stage first.Don't use bouncy stretches to get flexible.

 

[Buffy]

Just about everybody is way off course regarding flexibility. It's a common mistake.

If you want to strech the right way: "Stretch Scientificaly".

Below is a VERY short description - is you want more information just let me know.

There are 2 kinds of flexibility:
Dynamic
Static

Dynamic flexibility is when you kick or punch.

There are 3 kinds of static flexibility:
Active static flexibility
Isometric static flexibility
Relaxed static flexibility

Active static flexibility is when you are standing on one leg and hold the other horizontal to the front (like gymnastics).

Isometric static flexibility is when you stretch, tense, stretch more, tense again etc. hold the last tension for 30 sec.
Ex.
Spred your legs in a split.
Tense the insides of your legs (10 sec)
Relaxed (within the first 1-2 sec after then tension) and stretch further.
Tense again (10 sec).
Relaxed (within the first 1-2 sec after then tension) and stretch further.
Tense again (30 sec).

Tense = try to get to an upright position from the split using only the inside of your thies.

Relaxed static flexibility is when you stretch, hold the position for a long period of time, then stretch more etc.


Ok - BUT what about training????

... to be continued ...

 

[Quick Sand]

I'm in a university Health course right now that's completely centred on fitness and working out etc. Here's what we were taught about stretching.

You should do a breif warm up of some kind to get your core body temperature up before you stretch. Then at the beginning of a workout you want to focus on dynamic stretching and range of motion. You shouldn't hold static stretches for more then about 6 seconds. Stretching at the beginning of a workout helps prevent injury.

The best time to develope more flexibility is at the end of a workout. You should focus more on static stretches then and hold them for at least 15 to 20 seconds. Do each stretch at least 3 times for muscle memory.

 

[SMAC]

The most important thing about stretching is to warm up thoroughly. It's not that it's much safer but unless you are really warm you can't stretch to your actual limit and therefore will not benefit anywhere near as much. Also i disagree about ballistic(bouncing stretches). There is no hard evidence that it is dangerous if performed correctly. It is true that if you attempt to bounce vigorously down into box-splits when you are not yet capable you will do yoursef an injury. However, if you take a stretch which you can control well, to its limit and then bounce gently this is superior to static stretches. This is because ballistic and dynamic stretches mimic the action of kicks far better than static ones. Your muscles need to learn to relax whilst being stretched and moved at the same time for your flexibility to be useful to you. Does anybody use PNF stretching with partners at there club. I think it is an excellent final part of a martial arts class.

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir

It's interesting that this is the party line, but... ever watch gymnasts stretch? They bounce... and they're damned flexible. What I've read is that novice's shouldn't bounce because they don't know how far to go. They should start slow and ease into the stretch. Experience people *can* get a benefit out of the bouncing (Balistic Stretching) if they control it properly.

I hope your not talking about competitive gymnasts.... they are flexible because as children it is still possible to stretch ligaments with arguable safety. Bouncing does this. Us big kids cant do this with reasonable saftey in anyones book that I have read.

 

[Nightingale]

also, please note that gymnists are CHILDREN and teenagers.
We had two 14 year olds on our olympic team two competitions back (Kerri Strug and Dominique Moceanu) and the oldest was 16.

People are naturally more flexible and can do more with their bodies at a younger age. but they do pay for it later. For example, Peggy Flemming, one of the most flexible and athletic skaters from like 20 years ago is now doing commercials for arthritis medicine. If you abuse your body like these athletes do, it does come back to haunt you.

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

also, please note that gymnists are CHILDREN and teenagers.
We had two 14 year olds on our olympic team two competitions back (Kerri Strug and Dominique Moceanu) and the oldest was 16.

People are naturally more flexible and can do more with their bodies at a younger age. but they do pay for it later. For example, Peggy Flemming, one of the most flexible and athletic skaters from like 20 years ago is now doing commercials for arthritis medicine. If you abuse your body like these athletes do, it does come back to haunt you.

well I must differ here.. the Kids I teach.. range from 13 to 4.. and I am more flexible than these little ones.. Anyone can attain flexibility... some have longer muscles than others..it takes them less time to stretch them out for length.. but you also are stretching Nerves.. ligaments..and they take a lot longer.
I, myself have speed and power muscles.. compact and short.. It took me 4 blown hamstrings.. and a year to attain flexibility to a split.. not that a split was my ultimate goal.. just getting stretched was..
these kids that are gymnasts,( and not all gymnasts are kids) train for flexibility in their rigorous schedules.. most kids nowadays are couch potatoes.. and when I see them unable to reach their toes with fingertips.. hands dangling knee level.. well that's kinda sad.. So if I can do it at my age.. anyone can..

 

[theneuhauser]

just to clarify for anyone that's unclear on this: children in their pre-teens have a greater capacity to increase their flexibility than post-adolescents. This is because their ligaments and tendons can still be stretched or lengthened through stretching.

it's important to know that in adults it's only the muscles that can be effectively stretched to any noticeable degree. tendons and especially ligaments do not stretch (tendons connect your muscles to the bone attachment site and ligaments connect bones directly to other bones).

However, it's really because of the tendons and the ligaments that martial artists should stretch. this is because if a muscle is tight when a sudden contraction occurs, then you put lots of undue stress on the point where it attaches to the tendon and may result in a tear. just some fyi-

 

[SMAC]

An important thing to bear in mind as an adult who is stretching is that people who are are naturally more flexible don't have longer muscles. Their muscles simply react differently when stetching tension is applied to them. This phenomenon is known as 'stretch tolerance' and can be developed. The most effective way to develop it is through proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) techniques. The principle is to contract muscles which are under stretch to alter your boidies response to that stretch. An example would be sit with your back flat against a wall and let a partner push your legs out towards box splits until your maximum stretch (but not pain) is felt. After holding this position for 20s you should then contract your adductor muscles in your inner thighs as hard as you can (trying to pull your feet together)whilst your partners feet hold you in that position so you don't actually move. Do this for 10s then relax totally in the stretched position for 10s. You should now have generated some 'slack'and be able to tolerate your partner increasing the stretch. Take it easy and don't over do it and it can be v.effective. If anybody has more ?'s on stretching i'd love to try and help.

 

[theneuhauser]

good stuff smac


alot of physical therapists using pnf today apply the resistance that you mention using a slow but steady "give" against the squeeze that the resistance is being applied to. that way, you are not simply training an isometric "squeeze".

 

[Buffy]

I couldn't agree more with you smac !

Remember to do dynamic stretches before dynamic excercises and to do static strectches after your workout to reset your stretching potential

 

[yin_yang75]

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