Standing versus kneeling in systems

[Shuri-te]

I have had exposure to a few different JuJutsu systems. The one I study now is Yoshin Ryu. There are several sets of techniques, and they are all done from a Seiza (kneeling) position.

In the Small Circle and Kirby jujutsu systems I am familiar with, most of the techniques are practiced from the standing position.

Can anyone share what the custom is in other jujutsu systems?

Thanks.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Shuri-te
I have had exposure to a few different JuJutsu systems. The one I study now is Yoshin Ryu. There are several sets of techniques, and they are all done from a Seiza (kneeling) position.

In the Small Circle and Kirby jujutsu systems I am familiar with, most of the techniques are practiced from the standing position.

Can anyone share what the custom is in other jujutsu systems?

Thanks.

Who teaches Yoshin Ryu? Is it an offshoot?

BJJ starts on the knees early on when "rolling", other than that I don't know why a system would start mainly from kneeling.:

asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

The reason for starting from the knees is traditional Japanese MA. Many sword arts start with kneeling position. Most Japanese houses are very short in height and kneeling is the only way not to hit your head. Must also be able to walk on your knees. Forgot the Japanese term for that?
Bob:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

Yoshin Ryu is an old style. Here is a link to the history of Jujutsu that talks of this and other early systems.

http://www.jujutsu.me.uk/jujutsu/downloads/files/history.pdf

All systems have their strengths and weaknesses. When these systems were developed, it is likely that the mats we take for granted today might not have been as readily available. In this system, it as one takedown after another, and this must have been hard on the body, and over the long haul, probably not too good for it.

What I like about kneeling (you face each other in Seiza (the Japanese kneeling position) is that from this level, the throws are easy on the body. You can do high reps of techniques with your partner, and the risk of injury due to hard takedowns is minimized.

The downside is that it doesn't really approximate what fighting is like while standing. But then again, if you do enough reps kneeling, you get so good that applying it while standing becomes a relatively easy transition.

 

[Abbax8]

Walking on the knees I think is called kyoshi.

Peace
Dennis

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Shuri-te
Yoshin Ryu is an old style. Here is a link to the history of Jujutsu that talks of this and other early systems.

http://www.jujutsu.me.uk/jujutsu/downloads/files/history.pdf

All systems have their strengths and weaknesses. When these systems were developed, it is likely that the mats we take for granted today might not have been as readily available. In this system, it as one takedown after another, and this must have been hard on the body, and over the long haul, probably not too good for it.

What I like about kneeling (you face each other in Seiza (the Japanese kneeling position) is that from this level, the throws are easy on the body. You can do high reps of techniques with your partner, and the risk of injury due to hard takedowns is minimized.

The downside is that it doesn't really approximate what fighting is like while standing. But then again, if you do enough reps kneeling, you get so good that applying it while standing becomes a relatively easy transition.

Cool.

I understand seiza as what I was taught through long periods of time sitting in seiza. Damn that hurt my feet (wishing in my head Sensei would let us switch to anza.

I just think that starting from a kneeling position should be "just another position."

:asian:

 

[Shuri-te]

I am fortunate that in my school, we also practice ground fighting, and do randori. But here we start out like BJJ, on the knees.

 

[arnisador]

One sees starting from seiza in many traditional jujutsu systems.

 

[Saitama Steve]

The seated techniques in most classical jujutsu ryuha are called idori (‹•ß). Idori in koryu jujutsu is usually the first type of jujutsu training you do as a base to teach basic strikes, locks and also to build strength in the hips and legs. Some have also reasoned that it is to train jujutsuka in newaza.

BTW, Yoshin ryu is no longer extant as a jujutsu ryuha as far as I know. There are offshoots of Yoshin ryu, however. Some of these are; Tenjin Shinyo ryu, Shin No Shinto ryu (No longer extant) and Shinto Yoshin ryu. Yoshin ryu still exists in Hiroshima, but only as a Naginata school.

 

[Shuri-te]

Saitama Steve,

Thanks for the post.

I see you just joined in June. I hope you can find the time to contribute here and share with us your knowledge.

I don't know what Yoshin Ryu offshoot I study, but I will find out.

If I may ask a couple of personal questions, how long have you been in Japan studying the art? Do you come from the US or perhaps Ireland?

Thanks,

 

[Saitama Steve]

Originally posted by Shuri-te
Saitama Steve,

Thanks for the post.

I see you just joined in June. I hope you can find the time to contribute here and share with us your knowledge.

I don't know what Yoshin Ryu offshoot I study, but I will find out.

If I may ask a couple of personal questions, how long have you been in Japan studying the art? Do you come from the US or perhaps Ireland?

Thanks,

Shuri Te,

I have been studying in Japan now for a little over five years. I train in both jujutsu and weapons arts. I've also been doing generic modern jujutsu for about 11 years.

I am from Ireland.

There are only a small handfull of Yoshin ryu offshoots left extant, so it won't be that hard to pin down.

There you go, questions answered.

 

[twinkletoes]

Aiki styles are also heavily into kneeling practice (often called suwari waza [seated techniques] or sutemi waza [sacrifice techniques]). The emphasis is on learning to move from the center to effect a technique.

I believe one of the terms for kneeling walking is shikko.

~TT

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

I have had exposure to a few different JuJutsu systems. The one I study now is Yoshin Ryu. There are several sets of techniques, and they are all done from a Seiza (kneeling) position.

In the Small Circle and Kirby jujutsu systems I am familiar with, most of the techniques are practiced from the standing position.

Can anyone share what the custom is in other jujutsu systems?

Thanks.

In the Takagi Yoshin-ryu that I learned there are many idori (both person sitting) and hanza-hantachi (one sitting one standing) techniques. interestingly, unlike aikido where the person sitting always wins, in some of Takagi Yoshin's kata, the person standing wins.

 

[azrael]

I have had exposure to a few different JuJutsu systems. The one I study now is Yoshin Ryu. There are several sets of techniques, and they are all done from a Seiza (kneeling) position.

In the Small Circle and Kirby jujutsu systems I am familiar with, most of the techniques are practiced from the standing position.

Can anyone share what the custom is in other jujutsu systems?

Thanks.

In the school of budo I go to which teaches primarily aiki jujutsu but also hakko ryu jujutsu and aikido we practice techniques from standing, seiza and also sitting in chairs. Sitting and doing a technique is good way to practice if you need to work on your griping. I guess it all depends on the sensei or school.

AZ