Spinning Back Kick or Spinning Hook Kick?

[Tez3]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XRgIbBpJnnU&feature=related

Well that took a bit of looking for!
I can't honestly say I get more power out of the TSD jumping kick though I get more height sometimes. I find it clunkier to do, the Wado style (though they use the scissors version too) is faster and easily done from standing position, you just jump and kick. Its my feeling that Wado gives you more choices therefore more ammo in your box.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Nice vid; that's a good break; looks like a break I've been practicing lately using both feet (not to be confused with a split kick, where the feet kick separate targets).

I still, though, think the TSD version is more useful. Why? Well, unless you're Bruce Lee, you don't fight Kareem Abdul-Jabbar all that often. In other words, the point of the jump isn't (purely, if at all) for height. A jump front kick (some might say any jump kick) finds a lot more use in a "skip" variation. You can use it to fake and counter or to cover ground quickly -- especially for the latter, in fact. You don't have to go six feet in the air.

I can see the case being made for a front kick done the "Wado" way if you're doing a switch-up kick, just jumping up and front-kicking with the back foot, although I do that more often as a roundhouse tag to the face/gut.

No offense to your method, though; if you can do it well and it works for you, keep doing it

 

[JoelD]

Here is what is a jump double front kick in Soo bahk Do (Ssang bahl Ahp Cha Nut Gi) probably what youre thinking of, JT... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnNh4c1akyI&feature=channel_page

 

[JoelD]

Nice vid; that's a good break; looks like a break I've been practicing lately using both feet (not to be confused with a split kick, where the feet kick separate targets).

I still, though, think the TSD version is more useful. Why? Well, unless you're Bruce Lee, you don't fight Kareem Abdul-Jabbar all that often. In other words, the point of the jump isn't (purely, if at all) for height. A jump front kick (some might say any jump kick) finds a lot more use in a "skip" variation. You can use it to fake and counter or to cover ground quickly -- especially for the latter, in fact. You don't have to go six feet in the air.

I can see the case being made for a front kick done the "Wado" way if you're doing a switch-up kick, just jumping up and front-kicking with the back foot, although I do that more often as a roundhouse tag to the face/gut.

No offense to your method, though; if you can do it well and it works for you, keep doing it

or if you are a female facing a much taller male... could be useful there.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

Inverted crescent kick for one.

The jump kicks too, in TSD they are just done as jumping scissors kicks whereas they are also done in Wado as straight jumping kicks.

We do all the kicks shown in all videos posted here. The double leg front kick can be performed with feet close to ecach other, or with legs opened the farthest you can. You should only keep your body straight to be considered fron kick.

Inverted crescent kick, is it jumping or standing?
We do them both

I think your TSD school was a little kick-lacking

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

or if you are a female facing a much taller male... could be useful there.

Well...maybe. But if you're a female facing a much larger male, there's a much easier target closer to the ground, isn't there?

 

[matt.m]

Spinning hook by far is the one I prefer. When done right it is an amazing kick.

 

[JoelD]

Well...maybe. But if you're a female facing a much larger male, there's a much easier target closer to the ground, isn't there?

indeed.

 

[Tez3]

We do all the kicks shown in all videos posted here. The double leg front kick can be performed with feet close to ecach other, or with legs opened the farthest you can. You should only keep your body straight to be considered fron kick.

Inverted crescent kick, is it jumping or standing?
We do them both

I think your TSD school was a little kick-lacking

Good, you can explain them for me them and why they are called the figure of four kick!

 

[Montecarlodrag]

Good, you can explain them for me

Well, what can I say? There are some variations of the kick -> Hit with heel, hit with instep or with the inner side of foot.

The jumping one is something like this:

This kick is often performed a little different, kicking from side to side:

(is also easier to do it this way).

The key when hitting this kick with heel is to jump the higher you can and rise the leg the most to take advantage of a crouching/smaller opponent.
If you hit with your heel like an axe, the effect is much better, but the kick is harder to perform and easier to evade/block and counter by big opponents. There is a big chance of a broken collarbone, or broken nose and knockout if you hit it right (Once a male green belt kicked a female brown belt with that kick during a gup test, she got a broken nose, a lot of bleeding and big black-eye).
We call it "E dan dwi phakeso anuro cha ki" (jumping reverse crescent kick)

If you hit with the side of your foot, the kick is somehow faster, easier to do and harder to evade/block. The jump doesn't need to be very high for the kick to be effective.

To hit with instep is better than with the side of foot, but is harder because of the hip movement required. This kick is called different, it is not crescent but some people call it that way. We call it "E dan dwi tollyo cha ki" (jumping reverse roundhouse kick).

The standing kick needs no explanation. We call it "Dwi phakeso anuro cha ki", however we almost ever use it, because is slower and we have a better option: "Dwi aneso phakuro cha ki"

why they are called the figure of four kick!

I have not heard of that term, and I don't really know what it is. Would you care to explain the meaning of that?


Regards.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

@Montecarlodrag: Heh, well that's something we usually do as a roundhouse variation, but I know we've also practiced it (or, at least, my sabomnim's made me do it) as a crescent kick.

In reference to the second video, in fact, one of the "long-distance" drills that green belts learn involves a back-leg round kick, followed by a turn and another round kick with the same leg. If you're a certain age/rank/skill level, you do the turn as a jump, pretty much in the way shown in that second video, only with round kicks.

Looking at that kick, the only thing that occurs to me is the strain it would put on your (well, my) knee and hip coming through at that angle. I understand the reason -- you want to hit with your sole/heel to avoid injury -- but turning your hip for a spin while bringing your leg in that direction just makes my knee hurt to think about it. Maybe I'm just missing something (or maybe, like I said, it's just my messed-up knees). *tries kick in his living room* Yeah, I felt that. It's the way you turn your leg to kick with your sole/heel while bringing it across your body, even while turning. I find it much easier to do the round kick version. Of course, I condition my insoles to be able to take impact, allowing me to round kick with a lot of power without risking hurting myself (too much).

Again, if I missed something in the video, please correct me.

 

[Tez3]

Well, what can I say? There are some variations of the kick -> Hit with heel, hit with instep or with the inner side of foot.

The jumping one is something like this:

This kick is often performed a little different, kicking from side to side:

(is also easier to do it this way).

The key when hitting this kick with heel is to jump the higher you can and rise the leg the most to take advantage of a crouching/smaller opponent.
If you hit with your heel like an axe, the effect is much better, but the kick is harder to perform and easier to evade/block and counter by big opponents. There is a big chance of a broken collarbone, or broken nose and knockout if you hit it right (Once a male green belt kicked a female brown belt with that kick during a gup test, she got a broken nose, a lot of bleeding and big black-eye).
We call it "E dan dwi phakeso anuro cha ki" (jumping reverse crescent kick)

If you hit with the side of your foot, the kick is somehow faster, easier to do and harder to evade/block. The jump doesn't need to be very high for the kick to be effective.

To hit with instep is better than with the side of foot, but is harder because of the hip movement required. This kick is called different, it is not crescent but some people call it that way. We call it "E dan dwi tollyo cha ki" (jumping reverse roundhouse kick).

The standing kick needs no explanation. We call it "Dwi phakeso anuro cha ki", however we almost ever use it, because is slower and we have a better option: "Dwi aneso phakuro cha ki"


I have not heard of that term, and I don't really know what it is. Would you care to explain the meaning of that?


Regards.

None of those kicks is what I know as an inverted crescent kick, not a reverse crescent kick.

Ok imagine standing in left fighting stance, bring your right foot up to the inside of your left knee, just above it, you'll see the figure four shape, then kick out to the front with the right foot as in a side kick with the side of the foot, turning the left foot slightly. Sounds odd I know but it's a nice little kick when you get the hang of it.

The TSD kicks we do are all the ones in the syllabus so I guess it must be the syllabus 'lacking'. The book and syllabus followed is that of Master Kang Uk Lee. Our students don't lack variety however as I teach them Wado kicks as well, including, skip and slide jumps.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

None of those kicks is what I know as an inverted crescent kick, not a reverse crescent kick.

Ok imagine standing in left fighting stance, bring your right foot up to the inside of your left knee, just above it, you'll see the figure four shape, then kick out to the front with the right foot as in a side kick with the side of the foot, turning the left foot slightly. Sounds odd I know but it's a nice little kick when you get the hang of it.

The TSD kicks we do are all the ones in the syllabus so I guess it must be the syllabus 'lacking'. The book and syllabus followed is that of Master Kang Uk Lee. Our students don't lack variety however as I teach them Wado kicks as well, including, skip and slide jumps.

Well english is not my native language, the only references to the name you described were those I quoted.

So, as you describe the kick now, does it happen to be this one? (the one HC Hwang is doing)

This is kind of "trademark" kick of TSD, we call it "Bit cha ki" or "Peet cha ki". It is useful in some close combat situations, first because it is very fast and precise, second because very few people know it and nobody expects you to use it.

Is this the one you are talking about?

 

[Tez3]

Well english is not my native language, the only references to the name you described were those I quoted.

So, as you describe the kick now, does it happen to be this one? (the one HC Hwang is doing)

This is kind of "trademark" kick of TSD, we call it "Bit cha ki" or "Peet cha ki". It is useful in some close combat situations, first because it is very fast and precise, second because very few people know it and nobody expects you to use it.

Is this the one you are talking about?

No sorry it's not. I will get the Japanese name for it and a better description. I've never seen it in a Korean style either TSD or TKD.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

I think I know which kick you are talking about. I have seen Shotokan students doing it.

It is like a Side kick, but with no hip, you hit with the outer border of the foot, the base foot is not turned backwards, you only turn it like 90 degrees.
If Im right, it must be the kick you'll see @ 1:28 in the video.

Is that kick?

 

[Tez3]

Sorry still not! the foot goes right across the knee of the other leg before coming out in what is basically a side kick done from a front kick position. I'm asking some karate friends of mine to help me find out the correct name.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

Maybe you can find a youtube video to show it

 

[Tez3]

So do I! i have found something similiar and I believe I've found the Japanese name for it but that doesn't help so far lol. I believe it's called Sokuto Fumikomi Geri, however nothing comes up on U Tube with that.

If you take the first part of this move where he brings his foot up to his knee http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4jC9pmSldOg with the second kick of this one http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwpYA10Ur0 thats more or less it. The foot comes up to the knee and strikes down with a side kick motion. Its basically doing a sidekick from a front stance position. Instead of turning on the non kicking foot it enables you to strike with the side of the foot without having to turn into the sidekick, it's a low kick to the knee mostly.

 

[JoelD]

There is a kick just like you are explaining in one of the Soo Bahk Do 1-step sparring sequences...

the kick is chambered as if executing a front kick but then it is thrust sideways into the side of an attackers knee...

 

[DMcHenry]

when I do a kick like that, I tend to stomp with the inside of the foot, not the outside. Some call is an oblique kick, I just call is an arch kick because I'm using the arch of the foot.

I think it's similar to what you are referring to, but with the foot turned out not in. Depending on circumstances, just like in the example I'll do the low stomping sidekick as well.