Southern Baptist leader, "no yoga for Christians"

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Spirituality in the Arts' started by punisher73, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Actually I can. Most Islamic countries, no matter what version of "Democracy" they espouse, are theocracies. The imams pull the strings & things are done. Saudi Arabia may be a definite democracy with the imams having a say, but not so much control. Indonesia & Malaysia are definitely theocratic in policy & principle, but not in raw practiced name. Egypt... not sure about.

    We are a country founded (supposedly) on freedom of religion & persecution of practicing religion. Christianity is the predominant flavor of faith practiced here. No arguments there. However, there is separation of church & state, so the state would have no say regardless. At least for the time being...

    Mine isn't. However I don't go calling "group A" wrong because they choose to do something, regardless of religious orientation or not. However, sheeple out there will follow his opinion without looking at themselves because "he said it".

    I never mentioned him calling for it to be outlawed. That's a stretch from you back to the theocratic Islamic countries. Their choice. Their laws. Good for them. But not here.

    Who says his definition is correct? Wait... he did. And so he's telling people they're wrong by practicing it short of anything but a physical activity at a gym.

    Must mean Japanese martial arts are off limits where there's a kamidana in place. It's got to mean Chinese martial arts are off limits where there's a sun toi. Indonesian & some Filipino martial arts are definitely off limits.

    I don't agree with him saying "you're wrong". They're no more wrong than he is for getting paid for preaching. If anything, he's wrong for turning a buck because of this ruckus. He's wrong for turning a buck running a church. He should have a job to make a living and then preach because he's moved to, not financially inclined or ego driven to. It's a calling, not a career path. There's a difference. My brother preaches because he was drawn to it & makes $0 for it.

    As far as "ANY" Christian leader expressing an unpopular opinion... who said they have to be popular? When did this become a popularity contest anyway?

    Who says they're right, anyway? Shakespeare?
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I can't see why people are getting twisted about this.

    Christian belief is that saying prayers to and worshipping other gods is wrong and not to be done.
    The 'full on' Yoga has prayers to other gods therefore it is not compatable with Christianity. You can't argue with that!

    If you are a Christian you will follow the laws and teachings of your church, if you aren't a Christian you won't care because this man has said it for Christians, no one else. If you are a Christian, you can't chop and change your basic tenets of which this is one, just to suit your lifestyle.

    That's the case in a nutshell.

    Good post punisher!
     
  3. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Because we can. Bout the best answer I've got.

    If you're a "Christian" then you wouldn't go to a "full on Yoga" class anyway. Then again, you also wouldn't participate in any "imported" holiday or event we all take part in yearly either. Oh, most music would be right out the door too along with movies & other popular forms of entertainment. Martial arts would be definitely not happening to add to the list.

    It's the precedent.

    Why not?? 99.99% do anyway.

    Skin of the nutshell anyway, but it's a good Friday topic!!
     
  4. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Think about that statement for a bit and then think about what he is asking for.

    In the USA there is Freedom of Religion (that is that other pesky part of the 1st amendment people seem to forget) so you can ask why is his belief any more or less valid than yours? But that then begs the question; why is their belief any more or less valid than his?

    Why is he anymore right than anyone else?


    I truly have no idea.
     
  5. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    That was my point. No one is more "right" about this than anyone else. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and a right to express that opinion. But, to start judging him for expressing the opinion of his religion is not right. If you say that you don't agree with Christianity and therefore don't agree with his belief that is fine with me. But, I would expect that you (in the general sense, not specifically you) would agree that his view was correct in the context of what it was spoken in.
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Tez wrote:
    Sean wrote:
    Could you clarify what you mean by this? I think it will help me understand your viewpoint more.
    Thanks
     
  7. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Well... the precedent of "Preacher A" telling "Church A" (non-descript applies to any religion) to do/not do something because of his belief or interpretation of some religious text and the sheeple following suit without being strong enough to question & determine for themselves whether or not it's proper/correct to do so.

    I've seen it before on things like this, local where I live.

    I don't care for the precedent.

    That help any?
     
  8. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    As you do the Sun Salutation, you should consider why? Its not about shaking your faith. You don't see a lot of christians attending cynagog either, and its not because they think it will shake their faith.
    Sean
     
  9. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    I would hardly call people sheeple because a religious leader pointed out something from the bible.
    Sean
     
  10. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

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    No you can't argue that. But I say, unless you are stepping into a Hindu temple (the only place real Yoga is taught by real Gurus) then it's just working out and shouldnt be a problem. Your local gym or health club doesnt have a guru on staff nor do they chant/pray ... or those that do I've heard some pretty crazy pronunciations by people who obviously don't know the language.
     
  11. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    That's cool. You don't, I do.

    If they're not strong enough to question (and there have been plenty that have) then they fit the role.

    Anybody who blindly follows somebody in that position (in any organized religion) without questioning, deserves the title.
     
  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You've just reitrated what the pastor said ie if you are just doing the movements it's not Yoga! I don't think the pastor is saying don't do the movements, he's saying don't do the chanting/prayers which is a fair one.

    The pronouncations 'problem' is also common in martial arts!
     
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    I don’t understand this question.

    As for me doing a Sun Salutation, is just exercise. I would never nor do I describe myself as a Yoga person. A Sun Salutation to me is a tool to help my martial arts it is not in any way to me a spiritual thing. However I have trained a bit of Kripalu Yoga, Power Yoga and most recently Hatha. I have considered Iyengar and Yin but to be honest it is all for the same purpose, to better my MA that is all. I know there are those that are deeply into Yoga and all it is about and I have trained with them and sat and talked with them and I never once felt they were ever a threat to whatever my spirituality is nor have I ever felt them a threat to Christianity or the Core values of the western world.

    I also have very good friends, who use to be a CMA sister, who was more recently my yoga teacher because she left CMA all together to deeply pursue yoga. I truly enjoy talking to her and I have never perceived anything she has said or discussed as a threat to me or any spirituality I may have. Actually, to be truthful, she is much happier and much healthier with yoga than she ever was with CMA.



    Would you explain it to me then, because based on the article I do not see so much as an issue of shaking his faith, although he may be concerned about it shaking the faith of others. I would not label it intolerance but I do see it as a lack of understanding either to what yoga is, or how Americans tend to approach such things. Americans tend to be rather eclectic and take things they want to use form a thing in order to have it as a tool to achieve their goal be that Martial Arts, Spirituality or a better job. We rarely as a group get deeply into things. We have a tendency to change it to what we need or understand. My reference to Power Yoga is a good example IMO when you compare it to Hard core Hatha.

    However I have recently read about people pulling away from the church, be that Catholic, Protestant or Christian or whatever you want to call it. But that pilling away has little to do with abandoning their religion and has a lot to do with not agreeing with the views of their chosen church or the priest, pastor, clergyman in the church. They are still getting together as a group to worship, just not at a church. So to me that would say the Church needs to look more to what it is doing when people leave than looking for outside sources to blame.

    To be honest I do not see any other religious practice as a threat to any other if one is truely faithful so I don’t really see the issue here at all.
     
  14. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

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    I would like to point out that chants and songs does not a Hindu make. I'm an atheist, but I do yoga at the temple. I get my workout in, chanting is relaxing, the lunch is great ... who's better than me right? Just like singing songs with Jesus in it or celebrating christian holidays don't make you a christian either. I could sing the Psalms, say all the various prayers, sing the hymns (I was in choir) take part in the religious cerimonies, doesnt mean I'm a devout follower of that tradition either, it's just apart of knowledge.

    I'm from a family of Hindu and christian backgrounds and learning, repeating even attending ceremonies of one shouldn't really shake your belief in the other. Enjoy the experience, see how other people live
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    It's nothing to do with shaking faith, I don't sing hymns with anything Christian in it, I don't chant prayers to Hindu gods nor do I celebrate Christian or other festivals. It's not because I fear for my faith, it's out of respect for my own G-d. Respect, not fear or because I have been ordered to.

    The only Christian service I do go to is, sadly, funerals. I still don't sing the words that aren't 'compatible' with my faith nor do I repeat the prayers. The funeral I was at on Wednesday transcended any one religion, the Church of England service was a gentle one, full of compassion and respect, there was no difficulty for me being there, nor for anyone I believe.
     
  16. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I typed "purpose of yoga" into google and here are the top two results.
    http://www.swamij.com/yoga-meaning.htm

    http://www.sivanandaonline.org/graphics/sadhana/yoga/purpose.html

    Both of these websites are contrary to what the Bible teaches about the human condition and the path to God.
     
  17. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    You are projected your own biases onto this congregation. Does the article say anywhere or a follow up story that everyone has accepted what he has said without question?

    I have heard pastors/priests say things that I don't agree with and many others didn't either. If they are claiming things and telling you to do so without questioning it than that is a red flag for a cult and we are no longer dealing with the religion of Christianity.
     
  18. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    No... not on to the congregation. My opinions were put out there about him for making blanket statements & thinking for the sheeple that follow him unquestioningly.

    Here's a question I don't think we'll ever get an answer on. What's his experience, first hand, with yoga?

    The rebuttals to his commentary have come from outside of his herd, not within. I don't think we'll get much public response from them.

    Umm... there are plenty of "Christians" that do that here in the states along with various other flavors of religions around the world.
     
  19. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I should have clarified more what I meant. If you take any religion and change it to justify your own extreme beliefs, it should not be judged as indicitive of that religion. For example, looking at abortion clinic bombers and saying "that is Chrisitianity" or the taliban and saying "that is Muslim".

    I was trying to make the distinction between a pastor (or other religious) leader giving informed guidance within the parameters of his religion vs. people claiming to be religious leaders making claims that are outside of what their religion actually says but are trying to justify it anyways. For example, neo-nazis twisting scripture to hate Jews.
     
  20. Brother John

    Brother John Senior Master

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    and WHAT if they DO question, and then agree with him???
    Are they still Sheeple? Because honestly, You don't know and are not qualified to ascertain IF they've "questioned" at all. It appears to me you simply don't like their opinion. Condemning without fully understanding seems to me to be NO better than the so called "Thumpers" you are judging.

    Your Brother
    John
     

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