Source for training staff wasters

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by lklawson, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I'll be teaching a series of classes on the historic use of staves and "quarterstaff" in western culture soon. I'm looking for a source of inexpensive staves. These will get beaten about, smashed into each other, and generally chewed up.

    I want something like 1.25" - 1.5" rattan or bamboo in 8' lengths. Something with enough flex that students could accidentally bump each other through training armor and not break bones, but heavy and long enough that the won't learn the techniques wrong because their staves are too light.

    I have found (and bought) a 25 count bundle of 1" by 8' bamboo staves for about $82-ish. But I think that 1" is probably going to be too whippy.

    The next closest I've found was some 8' bamboo poles for $13 each. So I go from ~3@ for 1" dia. poles to $13@?

    And rattan & waxwood are more.

    Do you have a good source at decent prices?

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  2. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Don’t have any info on stave sources, but I was wondering - will you be teaching during the week or on the weekend? If it’s the weekend I might be able to come up to Dayton for your classes.
     
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  3. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I normally run it on Tuesday evenings.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  4. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Best deals I've had have been at Frank's Cane. Good tough rattan staffs with skin still on. I like them heavy, say 1 5/8 in. Frank's Cane and Rush Supply
     
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  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh well. Let me know if you ever do any training or teaching on the weekend.
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    We could probably make a special session for you at some point.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  7. EdwardA

    EdwardA Green Belt

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    I would consider .75" or 1", "schedule 40" pvc for starting. You can always put foam pipe insulation at the ends. They work well... just a bit flexible too.
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Something to think about.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    @lklawson This might be hijacking the thread a bit, but saw this online event and it occurred to me as something you might be interested in. Posting it here just in case others are as well. Sadly, I'll be busy at the time, so I won't be there. Hopefully the link works.

    19th Century Saber
     
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  10. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

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    I might have a good stave guy for you, but let me ask him first if he still has access to his own sources.

    Southern Praying Mantis master in Florida, in case you know who I mean (because there aren't that many of those left).
     
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  11. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    cool. Looks interesting.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Thanks. The 8-ft bamboo poles came in today. They actually range from 1-in diameter poles to about just a little less than 2-in diameter. The 1 in. poles are light enough to do some sparring and not as whippy as I was afraid. I think they will do in a pinch if they hold up.

    That said better alternatives are always a good idea. :)

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Rattan doesn't take a good beating. Waxwood takes a good beating but hurts.
     
  14. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Frank's Cane and Rush
     
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  15. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Really? My experience with rattan is that it is pretty durable and lasts comparatively well. I also like the way it fails. When it eventually fails, it shreds into twine-like fibers instead of shattering or exploding into wood shrapnel. It's what I prefer for singlstick work.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  16. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This shredding is what I'm referring to. I've never seen wax wood shatter before. In comparison to wax wood vs rattan, the wax wood is going to be more durable of the two.
    I've never had a wax wood staff break or crack on me. As long as I keep my staff in good environments, then it'll last.

    I've seen Japanese bo staffs shatter, but they aren't made of wax wood. They aren't made of flexible wood, so there's only so there won't be any give upon impact. If you ask which one would I rather get hit with then it's going to be the rattan staff. My first bo staff, I think is 27 years old. I have some thinner sized staffs that are going to last just as long so long as they aren't flawed on the inside.

    I still train with wax wood I guess I like the pain? or just the comfort that it's not going to splinter in my hand or snap in half.
     
  17. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm a fan of shredding. Never worked with waxed wood, but with rattan, I know that if it breaks I'm not getting a splinter in my eye (or half a stick in my neck). Other types of wood have not given that confidence. Plus I can still use it for a while after it starts shredding.
     
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  18. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I would have thought the shredding would cause problems with the handling of the staff,
     
  19. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I'm not denying that waxwood is durable. I'm saying that 1) rattan is also durable and 2) waxwood does not meet the goals which I stipulated right off the bat.

    I wrote "Something with enough flex that students could accidentally bump each other through training armor and not break bones, but heavy and long enough that the won't learn the techniques wrong because their staves are too light." I like waxwood well enough; heck I have a 5' waxwood staff. Waxwood is too dense and too heavy. Trying to pull a strike would lead to Repetitive Stress Injuries and strikes which didn't get pulled/pulled enough would lead to real injuries. Waxwood just is not right for this application.

    In traditional western incarnations, this sort of staff practice would have used rattan, malacca (which is still a kind of rattan), Ash, hawthorn, and other "flexible" hardwoods, usually (as I understand it) from the sapwood not the heart wood, or from appropriate length saplings so that there's more flex.

    Waxwood is great for a lot of applications. Just not mine.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    When it shreds is when it's broken and you throw it away and get a new stick. Or cut it down to shorter stick.

    One big advantage of rattan is that when it fails, it fails "safely." Think of it sort of like "crumple zones" in modern cars. It's gonna break eventually but you want it to break in such a way that does not further endanger the user.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk123
     
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