Some Liang BaGuaZhang Application

Discussion in 'Chinese Internal Arts : Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qi' started by Joey Haber, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Joey Haber

    Joey Haber White Belt

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    I've start to post some applications to the Liang BaGuaZhang DIngShiBaZhang or Fixed Eight Palms. I will try and post once a week on my youtube channel.

     
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  2. Joey Haber

    Joey Haber White Belt

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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Is this for information only, or do you intend to discuss the Bagua technique?
     
  4. Joey Haber

    Joey Haber White Belt

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    I'm happy to discuss the techniques.
     
  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    At 1.31, 1.42, how do you prevent your opponent from releasing his wrist hold, and lock your neck while you are spinning your body and give him your back?

    It's very risky to turn your back into your opponent. But Bagua system does this a lot and I don't understand why.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  6. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Someone else (i think @Xue Sheng ) mentioned recently that Bagua was a system trained for multiple attackers. A lot of it's movements, footwork and strategies make a ton of more sense from that perspective
     
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  7. Joey Haber

    Joey Haber White Belt

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    Great Question. As i said in the video, the drill at 1.31 and 1.42 is just a choreographed line drill to build comfort with footwork and spinal/hip articulation. It has no real use in combat. The video ends with an abridged version of the line drill that has some potential under duress 2.57.
     
  8. Joey Haber

    Joey Haber White Belt

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    BaGua does train to turn the back on opponents in multiple attacker situations. However, it's not something taught flippantly. The teachers I have worked with in TianTan, from both the Cheng and Liang families, have made it pretty clear that there is significant liability with turning the back. They have taught that it only really works if a constant destabilizing contact is kept with the opponent you are turning away from. This could take the form of disrupting spinal alignment or targeting the knee in a turn. it could also be a half complete thrown or lock that allows for a turn while one opponent is off balanced.
     
  9. wab25

    wab25 Purple Belt

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    However, at the points in question (1.31 and 1.42), the guy turning his back, is the one with the bad spinal alignment. His structure appears broken, and his balance taken, by the way he is leaning so far back. The other guy just needs to take a step back, and the guy with his back turned, will land on his quister.
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Why do you want to spend your valuable training time to develop something that has no combat value? Of course you may say that you train for health.

    1. Train for health.
    2. Train for combat but you will get health benefit too.

    IMO, 2 > 1.

    I train Bagua 8 palms as well. Every system has PRO and CON.

    PRO:

    1. Single switching hands.
    2. Double switching hands.
    3. Kou Bu (inward shin bite) and Bai Bu (outward shin bite).

    CON:

    1. Turn your back into your opponent.
    2. Cross your legs while you are in your opponent's foot sweeping range.

    I like to discuss the PRO. I also like to discuss the CON.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 3:20 PM
  11. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You've posted before about your one-side-weighted pole, that I think you used to train for a tournament. Flipping the pole over has no real combat use, if you did that while in a fight, someone would just punch you while you're distracted. But it still helps, since it helped you develop a specific skill, and that skill had the combat use.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    It develops the leg strength to enhance certain throwing skill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 9:39 PM
  13. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly. You wouldn't use it in a fight, but it enhances the skills you do use in a fight. Certain balancing techniques and stances have that same purpose.
     
  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree that the body rotation can enhance the balance, flexibility, and footwork, it can have benefit for combat as well.
     

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