G
GouRonin
Guest
Does anyone who has read the Systema Guidebook want to discuss the contrasts of "The way of a Soldier vs the way of a King?"
:asian:
:asian:
D_Brady
Purple Belt
When I first started traing in martial arts I was training the way of the soldier. Granted we as humanbeings are creatures of habbit, but why should we want to create more destructive ones.
I ( and I'll keep this about my self, I know most will deny being able to relate to this part) started traing under the mind set they attack this way I defend this way.
Then you get a new guy in the mix who can't follow that simple rule and he attacks from a slightly different angle or worse the wrong hand. I have been programed ( by choice) that their supposed to do it the way the attack is written, if they don't I can't do my techniques. Luckly the instructor would come and fix the problem( or add to it ) by telling them they need to attack this way so I can defend my self.
I was told in time I would learn the what if part of techniques.
What If= The attacker didn't take class with me so they don't know their lines in this play, and they will do what ever is natural for them to defeat me.
Wait wait wait a second here how come they can do what ever they want I was not traind that way, what the hell are they thinking. I was told in TIME when I have my material down then I can train that way.
This guys jummping the gun a bit don't you think, hey did some one say gun I can't do that till brown belt , Will some one please tell this guy about the rules, he's not doing it right.
The last few years I have been more interested in ability not technique, freedom of movement not numberd foot prints on the floor so I can remember where to step.
I believe when you train as the king you are more free to be your self and not bound to some one elses ideas or rules.
I (again just me ) believe that you need to ask for directions on any journey if you feel your lost and you don't seek help then your a fool not a king.
Teachers Should offer directions not tell you your hands must always be placed on the wheel like so and your head must be at this direction at all times. They may tell you this , saying this is the only way to make the journy. The king would then see he listening to soldier who lakes the freedom of understanding the habbits of some one else should not be thrust apon every one.
Maybe I'm ( me ) way off with this but what the hell .It's my birthday and I was informed the systema people are descending on my school today, and every saturday .
Can you say sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat.
Dan
I ( and I'll keep this about my self, I know most will deny being able to relate to this part) started traing under the mind set they attack this way I defend this way.
Then you get a new guy in the mix who can't follow that simple rule and he attacks from a slightly different angle or worse the wrong hand. I have been programed ( by choice) that their supposed to do it the way the attack is written, if they don't I can't do my techniques. Luckly the instructor would come and fix the problem( or add to it ) by telling them they need to attack this way so I can defend my self.
I was told in time I would learn the what if part of techniques.
What If= The attacker didn't take class with me so they don't know their lines in this play, and they will do what ever is natural for them to defeat me.
Wait wait wait a second here how come they can do what ever they want I was not traind that way, what the hell are they thinking. I was told in TIME when I have my material down then I can train that way.
This guys jummping the gun a bit don't you think, hey did some one say gun I can't do that till brown belt , Will some one please tell this guy about the rules, he's not doing it right.
The last few years I have been more interested in ability not technique, freedom of movement not numberd foot prints on the floor so I can remember where to step.
I believe when you train as the king you are more free to be your self and not bound to some one elses ideas or rules.
I (again just me ) believe that you need to ask for directions on any journey if you feel your lost and you don't seek help then your a fool not a king.
Teachers Should offer directions not tell you your hands must always be placed on the wheel like so and your head must be at this direction at all times. They may tell you this , saying this is the only way to make the journy. The king would then see he listening to soldier who lakes the freedom of understanding the habbits of some one else should not be thrust apon every one.
Maybe I'm ( me ) way off with this but what the hell .It's my birthday and I was informed the systema people are descending on my school today, and every saturday .
Can you say sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat.
Dan
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
While I can understand the argument against the "way of the soldier," as well as the argument for "the way of the king," (although I haven't read anything on Systema at all), but I think that sometimes it is better to have been a soldier before becoming a king...
In Yiliquan, beginning students are taught to move certain ways, throw techniques certain ways, and initially perform a little robotically. That is due, mainly, to their lack of experience in addition to moving their bodies in odd ways for the very first time. In short order (usually within the first two months or so - there is a lot of material covered at all stages of Yili training), they are doing situational training, including "what if" situations... "What if" you are off angle? "What if" the opponent doesn't play by the rules? Etc. In learning how to deal with unexpected eventualities early on, it makes a person much more skilled later (they have had more time to learn to deal with it, and become much more fluidly responsive compared to students from other schools with similar training time under their belts).
We teach gun and knife defenses (and they are not the typical X block against a high downward ice pick stab, either) pretty early, too. They usually follow on right after the student has learned how to hold their ground in a stable position, and they have developed a few of their strikes so they don't need to be corrected constantly on their body position.
Systema intrigues me. It is just too bad there are no schools in my area.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
In Yiliquan, beginning students are taught to move certain ways, throw techniques certain ways, and initially perform a little robotically. That is due, mainly, to their lack of experience in addition to moving their bodies in odd ways for the very first time. In short order (usually within the first two months or so - there is a lot of material covered at all stages of Yili training), they are doing situational training, including "what if" situations... "What if" you are off angle? "What if" the opponent doesn't play by the rules? Etc. In learning how to deal with unexpected eventualities early on, it makes a person much more skilled later (they have had more time to learn to deal with it, and become much more fluidly responsive compared to students from other schools with similar training time under their belts).
We teach gun and knife defenses (and they are not the typical X block against a high downward ice pick stab, either) pretty early, too. They usually follow on right after the student has learned how to hold their ground in a stable position, and they have developed a few of their strikes so they don't need to be corrected constantly on their body position.
Systema intrigues me. It is just too bad there are no schools in my area.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
OP
GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #4
I hear what you are saying and understand the point you are coming from but you need to read the book to understand the issue at hand. It is not about technique or what if's per say, it is about habits. So while your post has lots of merit it isn't quite about what we're talking about. I think Dan's post mislead you somewhat. In this instance, being a soldier does not turn you into a king and in fact prevents it.
You can purchase the book at Vlad's website should you have more interest and it's not expensive.
You can purchase the book at Vlad's website should you have more interest and it's not expensive.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Thanks for the polite smack on the nose...
Sorry to have posted erroneously. I will have to look into obtaining some info on Systema. After the seminar with Comrade Pavel, and the fact that he has recommended Vasiliev and Sonnon as RMA sources, makes me interested in learning more about what they do, if not actually learning what they do.
Thanks again.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Sorry to have posted erroneously. I will have to look into obtaining some info on Systema. After the seminar with Comrade Pavel, and the fact that he has recommended Vasiliev and Sonnon as RMA sources, makes me interested in learning more about what they do, if not actually learning what they do.
Thanks again.
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
OP
GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #6
Not a smack on the nose at all. Just that we're discussing a specific section of a written book.
Cheers.
D_Brady
Purple Belt
Gou, I ended my post with I might bo way off here and it wouldn't be the first time
. Please give me your thoughts on the subject and anyone else who has read the book.
Respecrfully Dan.
. Please give me your thoughts on the subject and anyone else who has read the book.Respecrfully Dan.
NoSuchChick
Yellow Belt
The funny thing is, we all start like kings... as children. We move freely, and without stress. We are fearless in our play, free in our movement, and relatively pain-free, even in our injuries. Have you seen a toddler fall down hard, then laugh and get back up?
The way of the soldier is thrust upon us as we mature and untertake the responsibilities of life and mortality. We learn fear and stress.
Systema does a lot not only to free us from the stress and stiffness in our movement, but to free us from fear of confrontation... and (for myself) from mortality.
Any thoughts?
Jennifer
The way of the soldier is thrust upon us as we mature and untertake the responsibilities of life and mortality. We learn fear and stress.
Systema does a lot not only to free us from the stress and stiffness in our movement, but to free us from fear of confrontation... and (for myself) from mortality.
Any thoughts?
Jennifer
Arthur
Blue Belt
There is actually a fair amount of RMA instruction available in Washington state.
There is Scott Merideth in Redmond who has trained under Vladimir Vasiliev and teaches Systema.
There is Viktor Sirtonin in Seattle who trained under Mikhail Rybko and teaches RMA
There is Eric Hansen who teaches in Seattle and is a student of Viktor Sirtonin.
I'm not as familiar with what's going on, on the R.O.S.S. side of the fence, but based on their website...
There is Scott Sonnon in Seattle, Head Trainer for R.OS.S. in North America
There is Dan'l Chomycia in Seattle
There is Eric Cobb in Des Moines, Washington
also if memory serves me correctly John Darby is out there in that area too... and I believe he has trained in both Systema and R.O.S.S.
Arthur
There is Scott Merideth in Redmond who has trained under Vladimir Vasiliev and teaches Systema.
There is Viktor Sirtonin in Seattle who trained under Mikhail Rybko and teaches RMA
There is Eric Hansen who teaches in Seattle and is a student of Viktor Sirtonin.
I'm not as familiar with what's going on, on the R.O.S.S. side of the fence, but based on their website...
There is Scott Sonnon in Seattle, Head Trainer for R.OS.S. in North America
There is Dan'l Chomycia in Seattle
There is Eric Cobb in Des Moines, Washington
also if memory serves me correctly John Darby is out there in that area too... and I believe he has trained in both Systema and R.O.S.S.
Arthur
That might explain why I feel like I am 6 years old again after every training session.
Gou has even seen me hit my head on the car roof because I could not contain myself on the way home.
Too much positive emotion.
Very liberating I think.
Gou has even seen me hit my head on the car roof because I could not contain myself on the way home.
Too much positive emotion.
Very liberating I think.
OP
GouRonin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #11
I agree. I used to think as I started EPAK that all this framework was great. In boxing we had none of this and I thought I was definately learning more. In fact though I was building my own prison bar by bar. Not because I wanted to or even because the system itself does that. Only because the TEACHERS do that to you. At least all by the last one I had did.
Now I see how free I was to do what I wanted before in boxing and I put myself into a cage. Systema is opening the door again.
The other day I was training with friends and I rolled inside a rear naked choke with hooks in to a front guard position and made them tap with a scarf choke. The person holding me freaked and wanted to know how I did it. I said I didn't know. I didn't bother thinking about how I did it. I just did and did not think about it.
Life is chaos. To think that any one thing will do everything is silly.
