Sip Soo - Ten Hands

[chodanbodacious]

I know that the Sip Soo form is also known as the ten hands form. Can anyone tell me why?

 

[Makalakumu]

Welcome to Martial Talk. :asian:

I've heard that sip soo was a bear form. I don't know that one yet, though...

 

[mjd]

Welcome to Martial Talk. :asian:

I've heard that sip soo was a bear form. I don't know that one yet, though...

Sip translates to TEN or in some circles MANY, Soo translates to HANDS or in some circles DEFENSE.

The most widely used translation is Ten hands, it has also been translated as many hands or many defenses.

Also, I have been told the pattern represents the number 10, not sure on that one.

If you have been taught Sip Soo Hyung, you will notice very powerful and broad attacks with the hands and feet, this is symbolic to the bear striking with its paws and claws.

 

[EmperorOfKentukki]

Ship Soo indeed is Sino-Korean for 'Ten Hands'. The form comes to TSD via Karate from Japan via Tote of Okinawa via the martial arts of Southern China. Most likely, the form is derived from Shaolin Tiger/Crane which was popularized by the 'Ten Tigers of Kwantung' (considered to be the ten best martial artists in Kwantung Province), legendary figures in a resistence to the Ching Dynasty. The art comes from the Southern Shaolin Temple and has survived today in variation among such southern Chinese Martial Arts as Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar. Thus...there is a rich cultural history to 'Ship Soo'.

The Emperor

The Ten Tigers of Kwantung:
Wong Yan Lum
Tit Kiu Sam
Jao Tai
Wong Kay Ying
Sou Hak Fu
Tit Ji Chan
Wong Ching Haw
Sou Hut Yee
Tam Jai Kwan
Wong Fei Hung

 

[Chizikunbo]

Thank you for those insights master hancock...
--josh

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

For another perspective (the one given to me by my sa bom nim), in Korean culture, I'm given to believe, the number 10 is often seen as the number of completion. You can only be a 10th dan if you've died (completed your life), for example.

Sip soo is a form that is all hands - it's completely made up of hand techniques. It's a bit of a sideways explanation, but it works for me.

I too have heard it called the form of the bear. I guess the analogy is that bears (except Kuma from Tekken) only really fight with their hands. The series of palm strikes and double outside-inside blocks certainly looks like something a bear might be seen doing.

 

[MBuzzy]

I'd like to reenergize this thread - can someon give me their interpretations of the applications for the opening two movements to Sip Soo?

 

[Chizikunbo]

I'd like to reenergize this thread - can someon give me their interpretations of the applications for the opening two movements to Sip Soo?

Ill video tape some stuff for ya, but I need to translate it to digital cause I only have my VHS camcorder working...so "bare" with me hehehe

 

[MBuzzy]

Thank you! That would be great!

 

[Master K]

Sip translates to TEN or in some circles MANY, Soo translates to HANDS or in some circles DEFENSE.

The most widely used translation is Ten hands, it has also been translated as many hands or many defenses.

Also, I have been told the pattern represents the number 10, not sure on that one.

If you have been taught Sip Soo Hyung, you will notice very powerful and broad attacks with the hands and feet, this is symbolic to the bear striking with its paws and claws.

The Ship Soo pattern does represent the Chinese character for the number ten. For those of you that have not seen the Chinese character for ten, it appears similar to a plus (+) sign or Christian cross depending on the calligraphy.

Thanks,
Patrick K.

 

[mjd]

The Ship Soo pattern does represent the Chinese character for the number ten. For those of you that have not seen the Chinese character for ten, it appears similar to a plus (+) sign or Christian cross depending on the calligraphy.

Thanks,
Patrick K.

Thanks for confirming that, I will write that down, good info.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

How does sip soo represent that character?

The footwork pattern is oriented on a straight line. The only deviations from that are the knife-hand block to the side, right before the palm thrusts, and the low+mid blocks (like from palche so) near the end.

Just wondering.

 

[mjd]

At the last palm trust you are in right foot forward front stance, left hand on top, right below.

Horizontal part of the cross.
-Turn 270 degrees to left, to left forward fighting stance, left low block to front, right high inside outside block, (or back fist to rear)
- Rotate 180 degrees to right repeat same as above leading with right.

Back to center line
- turn 90 degree to left to high block, you know the rest.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

At the last palm trust you are in right foot forward front stance, left hand on top, right below.

Horizontal part of the cross.
-Turn 270 degrees to left, to left forward fighting stance, left low block to front, right high inside outside block, (or back fist to rear)
- Rotate 180 degrees to right repeat same as above leading with right.

Back to center line
- turn 90 degree to left to high block, you know the rest.

I noted those moves in my previous post, if you'll notice. That's still not much of a cross-bar. The Chinese character looks like this: 十

I'd expect more. But if that's what you want to see in the pattern, you're perfectly within your rights to do so.

 

[mjd]

Yep, thats it :shrug:

 

[bluemtn]

I'd like to reenergize this thread - can someon give me their interpretations of the applications for the opening two movements to Sip Soo?

Well, I'm not that far along in my training yet, and not in TSD... One, I have a book with the forms in it, and two- you guys do quite a few of the forms that I do... So, to answer your question from what I see interpereted- the first 2 are done in slow- motion (do you do it that way?)... Someone has grabbed both your hands and you want to remain engaged- right hand released, free to do an uppercut palm strike.

Ill video tape some stuff for ya, but I need to translate it to digital cause I only have my VHS camcorder working...so "bare" with me hehehe

I think that that would be interesting to see!

 

[Chizikunbo]

I think that that would be interesting to see!

Well I just need to digitize it, it will be up soon!!!

 

[MBuzzy]

Well, I'm not that far along in my training yet, and not in TSD... One, I have a book with the forms in it, and two- you guys do quite a few of the forms that I do... So, to answer your question from what I see interpereted- the first 2 are done in slow- motion (do you do it that way?)... Someone has grabbed both your hands and you want to remain engaged- right hand released, free to do an uppercut palm strike.

Yes, both of those moves are done in slow motion. I wasn't able to get a good translation of what they were from my instructor. What I can gather from his explanation is that you are pushing an opponent's hands and "getting energy." Not quite sure what that means.

I think that your interpretation sounds pretty close.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Well, I'm not that far along in my training yet, and not in TSD... One, I have a book with the forms in it, and two- you guys do quite a few of the forms that I do... So, to answer your question from what I see interpereted- the first 2 are done in slow- motion (do you do it that way?)... Someone has grabbed both your hands and you want to remain engaged- right hand released, free to do an uppercut palm strike.

Yes, we do them in slow motion, though it's not so much slow as controlled. Hands and feet still move together. We also cross the top hand up by the neck. The interpretation given me is that of twisting a caught opponent's arm and breaking it. It's a bit hidden in the motion, but I can see it there, at least. There are, of course, many other things inside those motions, though, not the least of which is a block which pushes the opponent's fist upward, then wrapping the arms around the opponent's extended arm and stepping forward while locking the arm and snapping the elbow.

 

[Master K]

I noted those moves in my previous post, if you'll notice. That's still not much of a cross-bar. The Chinese character looks like this: 十

I'd expect more. But if that's what you want to see in the pattern, you're perfectly within your rights to do so.

JT,

As I noted, the chinese character can be written various ways depending on the calligraphy of the period. Taking a character off Babelfish or some other translation software does not take the calligraphy of the period into account. And that is a very important point as my instructor would say. If you study the history of the chinese characters you will notice a fair amount of variation and some would say evolution of the characters. One of the variations has a long vertical line and a much shorter horizontal line (cross-bar) that mimics the Ship Soo pattern almost identically. I have some calligraphy depicting this. If I have the time, I will see what I can do to post it for you.

Hopefully, this helped to clear things up for you.

Thanks,
Patrick K.