Single Whip application - stand-up grappling

Discussion in 'Chinese Internal Arts : Taijiquan (Tai Chi) and Qi' started by TaiChiTJ, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. TaiChiTJ

    TaiChiTJ Brown Belt

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    In my continual roaming for more and more tai chi info I found this single whip application



     
  2. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    Left arm seems like little awkward in those variations


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  3. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    I dont think there is any real application for the single whip posture. I think the shape of the right arm is designed for the practice of relaxation and the two arms moving in different directions is basically a 'split' (lie) movement.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Thanks I've never thought of it being used in that way.
     
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  5. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    I know several variations from Chen Zhaokui line. One of them has to do with grappling - twisting a neck.


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  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    No there is. The only one I know is where one hand is guiding a punch to the to the outside of the body and the other hand is striking and moving in at the same time. It's just not performed in the same way as in the form. The application that I know is similar to this one but not quite the same. When I was showed, my sifu hooked my punch which put me off balanced and as I was going forward he shot the other hand to my face. The other application that he showed was grappling but I don't know how to do that. I like how one technique can have multiple applications.
     
  7. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    Wolf, the guiding hand wouldn't have been shaped like the single whip hand, would it?
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I want to say he did 2 versions, one with a hook and the other with a pull. The pull version guided the hand and gave a quickpull and it felt like my body was going forward from the pull and my face was going backwards from the other hand coming out. Even though it wasn't full speed it was extremely uncomfortable At full speed I can only assume it would be like getting a stiff arm to the face more so than a punch that quickly returns to the guard. As for the hook version. I think he did that one to me because I remember thinking that a person couldn't possibly grip someone like that but he was able to do it. I'll have to ask my sifu, just to make sure I'm not remembering something else. The pull is a definite yes though.
     
  9. greytowhite

    greytowhite Green Belt

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    Eh? This is *****. Single whip is meant for one to have a stick in one hand and grab the arm with the other. You drag the person's arm with the hook hand and then almost simultaneously beat them across the face with your stick or a back fist. Does no one fight with their art any more? We have to recall that SOOO many of these postures are supposed to have weapons in hand.
     
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  10. 23rdwave

    23rdwave Green Belt

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    Single whip. The spiraling hand is a wrist grab which also powers the push of the other hand. And, of course, the push is done by the body (internally) not the hand.
     
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  11. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    In my personal opinion (might be wrong), the postures are not meant to be taken literally, the martial aspects of it are in the taichi principles. For example, what martial application does 'white crane spread its wings' have? Taken literally, it has the worst martial application - arms are not protecting the body, and the body is standing upright with one leg in front, not the most stable of stances. But if you look at it from the point of view of taichi principles, it allows you to practise upright body, separating the substantial and insubstantial, arms moving in opposite directions (split movement), while maintaining sung.
     
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  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    that's how I see it as well. the for teaches movement, builds the muscle required for that movement, and trains the coordination that's needed to make the technique effective.
     
  13. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    In my line every posture/ movement has a meaning and a martial purpose . There is nothing done for no reason or for some obstruct idea.
    Dan bien is not exception. There are several jins at work that open possibilities for a whole bunch of applications. Among others there splitting jin that was mentioned already.

    Here is a great showcase of single whip variation that by Chen Yu starting from 15:45 and this is just scratching the surface that come from the second form known as xinjia elu





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  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Looks painful.
     
  15. 23rdwave

    23rdwave Green Belt

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    In Guang Ping Yang's stork spreads its wings one pulls oneself to the opponent and strikes his head. If one is unable to strike the head there is splitting and up and down going on. The opponent can be off balanced and thrown, powered by the kua.
     
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  16. Zeny

    Zeny Blue Belt

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    Would such an elaborate movement be effective though?
     
  17. greytowhite

    greytowhite Green Belt

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    When fighting with it the movement is not nearly as elaborate. It becomes small, the posture manifests but may not look the same.
     
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  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Your opponent groin kicks you followed by a face punch. You use left arm to downward block the kick, right arm to upward block the punch, you then kick your left leg at your opponent's groin (or chest).

    In CMA, the

    - downward hook is a symbol to catch on the arm (wrist).
    - upward hook is a symbol to catch the leg (ankle).

    So "single whip" is to catch your opponent's punching arm with one hand, pull him in toward you, and strike back with your other hand.
     
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    not exactly, although the principles are important.

    white crane spread its wings' has applications and its usage depends on what you are defending against. However it may not look exactly like it does in the form. Each form has multiple applications, from various points in the movement through the posture However, they do not generally flow from one to another in application.
     
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  20. ChenAn

    ChenAn Green Belt

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    This video CY was actually took it easy. There are flics where CY goes way brutal. But they not for public. I did suffer in the hands of one of his students :) I'm not fun of "torture" but it's the best to understand how thing work especially when you doubt it. ( and I did at that time)


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