Should children be taught techniques for joint locking?

[Navarre]

I want to publicly apologize to Kai for part of my post. It *was not* he who directed a personally negative comment toward me in the Meet and Greet forum. I was mistakenly thinking of another user. I'm at work most of the time I'm on the board (which is why I'm on like 8 hrs a day!) and got confused. I should have checked my facts first. I apologize, Kai, for blaming you for anything in that regard.

As for the technique question, I still hold my original view...as most likely will you. Perhaps my algebra analogy was taken incorrectly. I didn't mean that children should be in algebra school (whatever that is) if they couldn't do algebra.

I was instead meaning that children start learning simpler math at an earlier age so that they develop a foundation upon which they can learn algebra when older. In this way they prepare their mind to handle the concepts. It is also important to note that their cognitive brain development is not yet ready to handle algebra if they are too young.

In the same manner, I feel that younger students need to develop their skills in stages. This is similar to adults. We don't expect adults to spar before they know any stances or know how to strike.

This is why I suggested that children start with understanding principles of body contact, angled movement, and escape before advancing to potentially injurous locks. As they internalize these concepts, regardless of age, they will be ready to progress toward more advanced techniques.

So, my point is that they should be taught with greater forethought and in a more controlled manner than an adult, not that they should not be taught the "true" techniques. I do not see this as "selling out", only applying an awareness of childhood development to the teaching curriculum.

If you still feel this is selling out, I respect your opinion and we are most likely back to the "agree to disagree" position. ... My apologies again for any unjustified remarks.

 

[kempo-vjj]

I have both a 9 and 10 year old along with myself working locking techs. At white belt they learn the ikijo, nikijo, sankijo (sp). With nikijo they learn application of the armbar and takedown, with sankijo they learn armbar and a rollout throw. Have they been hurt? Yes. Once or twice. Usually its sankijo that they get hurt with. First they are shown by the instructor how to and how it feels, and to go slow!!! When one gets hurt though it is when one has been playing then all of a sudden the other applies the lock to the unready one. Locks are important in overpowering the stronger opponent, in which case is most child vs adult scenarios. On another point no chokes or weapons until 14 I think. Except stick work of course since we work that also into open hand work. We also do not spar much so everything is kinda static at lower belts with slow takedowns.

 

[arnisador]

Were the Pinan forms taught with the Bunkai intact or a serious of movements? Were the kids being prepared for going to war?

I'm sur ethe teaching of the bunkai is delayed. That's the analogy...like only setting the locks, they can learn the basics and the movements first, and then concetrate on applications in later years. It makes sense to me--a progression, like learning arithmetic before algebra, algebra before calculus, calculus before analysis...

 

[howard]

you also risk damaging growth plates.

Indeed you do. People under 18, or whose skeletal development is not yet complete, should avoid full-on joint locks.

 

[Hollywood1340]

If we're teaching HKD, then yes. People can be suprised what children can learn. They in my experiance can learn better then adults. BUT it takes the ability to impart knowledge and do it well. My 5-8yo's have no problems and I think that speaks of itself.