Sexual Practices at Guantanamo

[hardheadjarhead]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/guantanamo_sex_vs_faith



I see how this could cause great offense to the Muslim mind, and I fail to see how it could possibly lead to any gathering of information.

That said, I'm contemplating converting to Islam and getting captured.


Regards,


Steve

 

[michaeledward]

Ahh, yes .... we are the good guys!


This makes me so proud to be an American.


Michael

 

[Bammx2]

torture me!

 

[Cryozombie]

Im really confused...

We cant use Physical Torture.

We cant use Psychologial interrigation techniques.

How exactly are we supposed to get answers, ask them, and when they refuse to answer say "Oh Ok" and move on to the next guy?

Lemme tell ya... I am no expert at interigation... the list of techniques I know could fill like 1 line in a notebook, and would be considered horrific by most civilized human beings... so I have to ask...

What IS appropriate?

 

[Ceicei]

so I have to ask... What IS appropriate?

Good question....

- Ceicei

 

[Melissa426]

It boggles the mind to think that people believe this technique would actually work.

I am trying to put myself in a similar situation, I don't know, maybe a terrorist in a thong throwing urine on me. :idunno: (menstrual blood doesn't phase me ) I would feel incredibly angry and humiliated, but enough to make me give up secret info? I don't think it would.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[michaeledward]

Technopunk ... that is a very good question. You would think that others would be asking the same thing.

And my answer will, no doubt, be less than satisfying, but perhaps will provide a starting place for further research.

A - The Federal Bureau of Investigations
B - The Central Intelligence Agency
C - The United States Military

Of these three government institutions, which have been attempting to extract intelligence from detainees? Answer - B & C

Prior to September 11, 2001, which of these government institutions were regularly involved in interrogation techniques of criminals? Answer - A

How much experience do 'B' and 'C' have with getting information from unwilling detainees prior to 9/11/2001? Answer - None

How much input did 'B' and 'C' request from 'A' when determining which interrogation techniques are effective? Answer - None.

This is not the time for 'On-The-Job-Training'. Yet that is exactly what is going on. Now, there is no doubt quite a bit of generalization in my comments here. But, it is true that the vast majority of interrogations were handled by the FBI in the past. Further, they have very little to do with the current interrogations.

I'll put Fox Muldar and Danny Scully against Donald Rumsfeld any day.

Mike

 

[ghostdog2]

Let me see if I got this straight: The prisoner gets to spit on the guard (real phlegm and saliva);

the guard gets to put ink on the prisoner ( nothing at all ) and pretend its blood.

And some of you think the guard is the bad guy.

Let these people do their jobs. It's difficult enough without a bunch of armchair experts pretending to know "what works" or when enough is enough.
The job is far from glamorous or even safe. The pay is lousy and the prisoners think women are unclean and inferior. Oh yeah, and they'll kill them if they can.
And some he-men want to put the handicap on the girls.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.



Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.



"The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."







The interrogator used ink from a red pen to fool the detainee, Saar writes.

"She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee," he says. "As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred.

"She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward" — so fiercely that he broke loose from one ankle shackle. "He began to cry like a baby," the draft says, noting the interrogator left saying, "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

How is cutting a person off from their God going to help interrogation?

Seems pretty clear to me with Muslims all over would be livid about this - as would Orthodox Jews, I believe, and possibly other groups as well.

 

[Simon Curran]

Let me see if I got this straight: The prisoner gets to spit on the guard (real phlegm and saliva);

the guard gets to put ink on the prisoner ( nothing at all ) and pretend its blood.

And some of you think the guard is the bad guy.

Let these people do their jobs. It's difficult enough without a bunch of armchair experts pretending to know "what works" or when enough is enough.
The job is far from glamorous or even safe. The pay is lousy and the prisoners think women are unclean and inferior. Oh yeah, and they'll kill them if they can.
And some he-men want to put the handicap on the girls.

I agree, I think the ends justify the means.

 

[ghostdog2]

1. How is cutting a person off from their God going to help interrogation?

2. Seems pretty clear to me with Muslims all over would be livid about this..as would Othodox Jews
Posted by Feistymouse

Interesting that you would edit out the part about the "detainee" (that would mean terrorist) spitting in the interrogator's face. That doesn't bother you, does it? Why not? Is your dislike for your country so strong that you can't be objective?
1 How is cutting a person off from their God going to help interrogation?
How would you know what "helps" interrogation? It's far from scientific and almost anything is worth a try...especially with a religous warrior. It might work, and can't hurt.
2. Seems pretty clear to me with Muslims all over would be livid about this..
Who cares? Presumably you are referring to those Muslims who are attacking this country or are sympathetic to those who do. The rest will understand. And if they don't? Who cares?
Given what we know about jihad and Muslim justice, a little red ink ought to be welcome.
As for Orthodox Jews, given the long history of brotherly love and mutual concern in the Middle East between Jews and Muslims, I'm sure Israel will be outraged. They are famous, after all, for their sensitivity to Arab customs.

 

[AnimEdge]

Intersting on how there current 'tourture' tactics of the Iraqi Terrorests or whatever they call themselfs involve Beheading and all you heard about it on the news is "Nother America/japanese/Whoever was captured and the terrorest say that if we done remove or forces they will behead him on national TV" for about a day then you hear nothing about it just about ever again, you dont hear uprising from there family or from Americans saying about it, but when news comes out that there 'interagating them' with women in miniskirts and thongs (stuff i saw on the girls walking around High School) and smearing 'ink' wail they cut off our heads and whatever else they do to us, wail theres a outcry about how evil we are for making them stay up late or puting a bag on there head or even giving them a evil look, i dunno aboutyou but i woudl rather be in a naked peramid with some short ugly lady pointing at me then to have my head sawed off.

 

[shane23ss]

I want to put my two cents in here. Speaking as someone who has been in the military and been to Afghan and Iraq, about the only person so far on this thread that I agree with is ghostdog2. As far as michaeledward's comment about the three agencies, your facts are a little incorrect. The U.S. military has had interrogators for many, many years. I was one, pre- and post Sept 11.

 

[michaeledward]

Interesting that you would edit out the part about the "detainee" (that would mean terrorist)

I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that the person in question was a terrorist?

Has he been charged criminally with terrorist activities?

Or is he a terrorist merely because he is in custody at Guantanamo?

 

[michaeledward]

As far as michaeledward's comment about the three agencies, your facts are a little incorrect. The U.S. military has had interrogators for many, many years. I was one, pre- and post Sept 11.

Please do enlighten us. I certainly stated in my post that it contained many generalities. Share with me, so that I am better informed, what types of interrogations the United States military engages in? How big are the interrogation units? Where are the units stationed? What successful results have the interrogation units had before September 11, 2001? How were you engaged in this service?

 

[Tgace]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37340-2004Jun12.html

 

[michaeledward]

It would seem this second article is justifying the techniques used in Abu Ghraib and not tied to the incident reported at the beginning of this thread.

Nowhere in this second article does it talk about using simulate menstrual blood to separate a detainee from his or her G_d.
Also, this second report does indicate that actual pain is likely to decrease the reliability of the information extracted via that pain. Further, it states that 'Threats of death were described as 'worth than useless'.

I guess that would mean actually inflicting death on a detainee doesn't yield good information either, eh?

Mike

 

[digitalronin]

It boggles the mind to think that people believe this technique would actually work.

I am trying to put myself in a similar situation, I don't know, maybe a terrorist in a thong throwing urine on me. :idunno: (menstrual blood doesn't phase me ) I would feel incredibly angry and humiliated, but enough to make me give up secret info? I don't think it would.

Peace,
Melissa

it would work on me. Touch me ladies touch me.

 

[Tgace]

How much experience do 'B' and 'C' have with getting information from unwilling detainees prior to 9/11/2001? Answer - None

...

This is not the time for 'On-The-Job-Training'. Yet that is exactly what is going on. Now, there is no doubt quite a bit of generalization in my comments here. But, it is true that the vast majority of interrogations were handled by the FBI in the past. Further, they have very little to do with the current interrogations.

Another poster stated the military has been doing this for years and you asked for proof...Article had no opinion on the right or wrong I could see. Just some historical data.

 

[michaeledward]

Another poster stated the military has been doing this for years and you asked for proof...Article had no opinion on the right or wrong I could see. Just some historical data.

Got it ... (I didn't when I first read your post) ... Thanks.

I guess that begs the question, how do you think those interrogation techniques from the 60's worked for us then? Were they ongoing? Were they still effective in the 80's and 90's? Did the military adhere to the recommendations of that historical report?

The military used to have horses in the cavalry too.

M