Sellier & Bellot .22 CB cap (6mm Flobert).

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by Chrisoro, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. Chrisoro

    Chrisoro Blue Belt

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    During my quest to find suitable ammunition for my "new" Sharps 1860 pepperbox pistol chambered for .22 short (mentioned previously in this thread), I decided to stay on the safe side, while at the same time try to squeeze as much out of it as possible within safe margins. Why? Because why not.

    [​IMG]

    As most modern .22 short ammunition is loaded to a lot higher pressure than the original blackpowder .22 short cartridges, at first I looked at ammunition such as the CCI .22 CB Short, that pushes a 29 grain round nose bullet at 710fps, resulting in a muzzle energy of 32 ft./lbs. I also looked for the RWS R25 which was recommended by Elder999, which pushes the same 29 gr. RN bullet at 560 fps. However, after checking with 5 different gunshops in my area, and several more online, it seems low velocity .22 short ammunition is pretty much impossibe to obtain in Norway. I simply couldn't find anything else than high velocity ammunition in .22 short (Almost exclusively the CCI .22 Short HV), and I feel that that would be pushing it a bit in a 150 year old firearm.

    However, what I did find for sale was the Sellier & Bellot .22 Flobert CB. This is an 18gr bullet pushed at 853 fps., resulting in a muzzle energy of 29 ft./lbs.!! From a CB Cap! Considering that the Aguila Super Colobri .22LR round(primer only) pushes a 20gr bullet at 500fps, resulting at around 11ft./lbs., I'm a bit unsure about what Sellier & Bellot is actually using as a propellant in their Flobert round, to gain this much velocity.

    [​IMG]

    I have allready fired some old Dynamit Nobel european 6mm Flobert rounds (Pictured above next to the pistol. These are identical to the .22 cb cap in dimensions, and was produced in west germany!) from the pistol without any problems, but these have a stated celocity of 180m/s on the box, which turns out at about 590fps in imperial units.

    As the Sellier & Bellot .22 Flobert CB is rated at a much higher speed, I'm not sure if these are just primer fired, as most CB Caps is, or actually contain some amount of smokeless gunpowder. If they do, is it reasonable to think that they may exceed safe pressures in this firearm, or are we talking about such a miniscule powder load in either case, that they wouldn't in any case pose any threat in a 150 year old firearm with barrels made using the steel tempering methods of that time?

    Exclaimer:
    No, I will of course not use this firearm for self defense or concieled carry. I'm just exploring what is possible to do in such an old firemarm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
  2. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    That'll work-in fact, your application is almost all those rounds are good for.

    Derringers are meant to be fired point-blank. Right in the face. Otherwise, there isn't much to do with it-and it's not so old-I've got a couple of rifles and shotguns that are 100-150 years old.
     
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  3. Chrisoro

    Chrisoro Blue Belt

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    Yeah, I'm mostly thinking of it as a curiosity and fun gun. :) And the Sellier & Bellot rounds is probably more than good enough for informal plinking and such. Going to let my wife try to shoot it the next time we're at the cabin, as even the Dynamit Nobel Flobert round is loud enough that I aren't comfortable firing them in the garden at my house. The first round I tried was in the guarden, and my wife heard it very good inside the greenhouse almost 60 meters away.

    Trying to conceal carry it would be a great way to have it confiscated if the police should ever decide that I'm worth an extra check (haven't happened so far), and I guess I would also get a hefty fine if I did, as it is only legal to transport firearms unloaded in an not-easy-to-reach-place(i.e. in a backpack og gunbag) from one place to another in Norway, when not using them for sports or hunting. Walking around with them on your body, loaded, is definately not legal, as we have no open or concealed carry laws. Can't even walk around with a knife in my pocket, so...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
  4. Chrisoro

    Chrisoro Blue Belt

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    I noticed that the S&B CB caps made more noise than the regular ones, and as mentioned above, they have quite a lot more muzzle energy(and also a lot more than other primer-only rounds, such as the Aguila Super Colibri). So I decided to open one, and just as I suspected, they aren't primer only, but actually have some gunpowder in the case.

    I also noticed that they have a slightly longer case and bullet, compared to regular CB caps, as can be seen in the image below:
    [​IMG]123
     

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