Self Defense from rape

[ShortBridge]

This is a few miles from where I live. I know that we are skeptical of 2 hour self defense courses, but simply teaching people not to be victims can make all the difference. It sounds like it did for this awesome lady.

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Seattle Woman Uses Tactics She Learned from Self-Defense Class to Escape Brutal Sexual Assault

Seattle Woman Uses Tactics She Learned from Self-Defense Class to Escape Brutal Sexual Assault

 

[Headhunter]

Obviously what she did worked out but one thing I'd suggest to do differently was instead if running into a stall run out of the bathroom into the public area. She locks herself in a stall but then she has no where to go to escape and if he's Intent on his attack he won't go anyway and will break the door down. But by going in public she can both just keep running away and get help. But don't know the full story maybe she couldn't make it to the door but that's just my 2 cents but of course it's a great thing it worked

 

[ShortBridge]

Yeah, tough to say what exactly went down and I won't second guess anything. What she did perfectly was turn into a rabid badger and fight for her life. Techniques and styles be damned, people who refuse to be victims and can tap into that have the best chance of survival. Tremendous respect for this lady.

 

[JR 137]

Yeah, tough to say what exactly went down and I won't second guess anything. What she did perfectly was turn into a rabid badger and fight for her life. Techniques and styles be damned, people who refuse to be victims and can tap into that have the best chance of survival. Tremendous respect for this lady.

I too think people get too worked up about techniques, styles, etc. It's all about flipping that switch and not being a victim. It's all about that mentality. Granted, even if you're a ball of rage or a "rabid badger" (I'd prefer honey badger ), some things really have little chance. But most things will work. Get the mentality right, and you're 90% there IMO.

 

[marques]

Most people have been avoiding much trouble avoiding situations of vulnerability (as she didn't being alone in a park).

If no course (just some caution and awareness) works (actually, it is the best defence), 2h training up to this should be an advantage (a little one). In this case this 'little advantage' did a great difference to this woman, happily.

Two hours don't do miracles. But may worth every second spent.

 

[Steve]

You guys better watch out. Some guys around here make their living selling the idea that these things don't work.

 

[Headhunter]

These things do and don't work. You can't learn to fight in 2 hours and any techniques you lewrn you won't have them perfected but on the other hand they do teach you things like safety tips and little things you can use so they do have their uses but ladies shouldn't think they're ronda rousey by the end of it

 

[Buka]

And he looks like such a nice man. Glad I get to chip in for his food and medical going forward.

 

[ShortBridge]

These things do and don't work. You can't learn to fight in 2 hours and any techniques you lewrn you won't have them perfected but on the other hand they do teach you things like safety tips and little things you can use so they do have their uses but ladies shouldn't think they're ronda rousey by the end of it

Let's not look for ways to blame the victim here. Clearly it worked, she fought for her life and went home relatively unharmed.

 

[Headhunter]

Let's not look for ways to blame the victim here. Clearly it worked, she fought for her life and went home relatively unharmed.

Umm...where in my post did I blame anyone I didn't even mention the victim

 

[JowGaWolf]

I do a self-defense drill where we corner the women and they have to fight us off while avoiding being cornered. Always make movement toward the escape, no matter how small the movement is. When an opportunity opens up go for it.

I won't second guess the woman, could things have been done better. I think that's always the case. Did she do the right thing? Well she made it out, so she did the right thing.

If I remember correctly I think the most important lesson that actually saved her, was the understanding that it didn't have to be a fair fight. Many of the female students are afraid that they care going to hurt the guys. It's not until they actually give the guys a good kick or punch for them to understand that it takes more than what thought to actually hurt someone. Once the lady in the article understood that it didn't have to be a fair fight then she probably felt fine and justified for attacking the guy in the face.

As for scratching the face, there is no technique to that. It's something that most people can do with no problem. You don't need to go to a self-defense class to learn that. The self-defense class probably put things into perspective. It made it clear to her that when it happens, it's a fight for your life, so don't feel bad about the guy or woman that's attacking you. If a self-defense class can get women to understand this then, women are more likely to survive. It's better than the other perception of: Maybe if I don't fight back he'll feel bad about what he's doing and let me go or won't hurt me as much.

If a self-defense class can get women over this mountain of being afraid to hurt someone

And make women attack with this type of effort, then the self-defense class is well worth it. While this lady did a good job. Look at the reaction to the women in the background, you can see their body language and it's clear that they don't have the stomach for violence yet. They aren't even being attacked you can see the "turtle" appear.

 

[oftheherd1]

And he looks like such a nice man. Glad I get to chip in for his food and medical going forward.

Oh, well, if you're going to, can I opt out?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let's not look for ways to blame the victim here. Clearly it worked, she fought for her life and went home relatively unharmed.

What part of that post sounded like he was blaming the victim?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I do a self-defense drill where we corner the women and they have to fight us off while avoiding being cornered. Always make movement toward the escape, no matter how small the movement is. When an opportunity opens up go for it.

I won't second guess the woman, could things have been done better. I think that's always the case. Did she do the right thing? Well she made it out, so she did the right thing.

If I remember correctly I think the most important lesson that actually saved her, was the understanding that it didn't have to be a fair fight. Many of the female students are afraid that they care going to hurt the guys. It's not until they actually give the guys a good kick or punch for them to understand that it takes more than what thought to actually hurt someone. Once the lady in the article understood that it didn't have to be a fair fight then she probably felt fine and justified for attacking the guy in the face.

As for scratching the face, there is no technique to that. It's something that most people can do with no problem. You don't need to go to a self-defense class to learn that. The self-defense class probably put things into perspective. It made it clear to her that when it happens, it's a fight for your life, so don't feel bad about the guy or woman that's attacking you. If a self-defense class can get women to understand this then, women are more likely to survive. It's better than the other perception of: Maybe if I don't fight back he'll feel bad about what he's doing and let me go or won't hurt me as much.

If a self-defense class can get women over this mountain of being afraid to hurt someone

And make women attack with this type of effort, then the self-defense class is well worth it. While this lady did a good job. Look at the reaction to the women in the background, you can see their body language and it's clear that they don't have the stomach for violence yet. They aren't even being attacked you can see the "turtle" appear.

If I could add one bit of equipment for working with SD seminars and new students, it would be that Redman suit.

 

[ShortBridge]

The nature of the internet is that I can post something, but have nothing to say about where the conversation goes from there. Fair enough. I will let this run down whatever path it does from here and won't try to redirect it again, but I am a little disappointed with how it's gone and I want to explain why before I do. And then you're all free to turn on me if that's what happens next. I really don't care. Where to start...?

First of all, let me say that I don't know this woman, but I know this park and have been there a million times, sometimes I even had the audacity to be there unaccompanied. It's not a bad neighborhood, though it is public and Seattle is a city. If my comments don't pertain to you, don't take offense, they are not directed at anyone in particular and I'm not personally calling anyone out.

The number one thing that people like to argue about on Martial Arts fora in this decade is "where's the proof that would work in the real world". To the consternation of many of us "the real world" is often regarded as either MMA or YouTube .

Here we have a verifiable story of a woman being violently assaulted by a recidivist predator in the actual real world and she successfully fought him off and went home with what most of us would consider minor injuries commonly associated with hard training. When I read this article, I was happy, I was proud and I was inspired to share it not only here, but with my students and other people in my extended training circles. Because, this is what real violence looks like...not sparring, not training, certainly not points tournaments. All of those things have their place and their value, but they are not "real fighting", this is.

I posted in the "general self defense" forum, because it's not about my style or your style or MMA or Ronda Rousey, it's about a normal person surviving an assault that occurred through no fault of her own in the actual real world.

Though I teach a traditional style, I also teach what I think is THE vital thing for survival in these situations, which she executed perfectly with little to no training. If you teach or talk about "self defense" I highly recommend a few books that may help you reconcile it to whatever training you do. My top 3 are "Strong on Defense" "Meditations on Violence" and "The Gift of Fear", but there are others. A quote from one of them that I thought of when I read this article is "Raping me is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done!" She went with "Not today MF'er!" over and over again and I might actually like that better.

When someone is raped and you say "What was she wearing?" "Had she been drinking?" or "She shouldn't have been there alone." you are victim blaming, which I will go on the record as a self defense teacher and a human being, as opposed to. She had a right to be in that park and she's not required to bring an escort for safety. She did nothing wrong. He's a criminal. She fought him off with tenacity that I hope my students have or learn, because honestly, if they are assaulted, it might be the one thing that matters.

Shame on me for thinking that a group of self proclaimed self defense experts couldn't just give this brave woman a cyber pat on the back for using what little training she had "in the real world" and living to tell about it. Shame on anyone who sees this story and smugly makes it somehow about their own superiority.

 

[oftheherd1]

Umm...where in my post did I blame anyone I didn't even mention the victim

What part of that post sounded like he was blaming the victim?

@ Headhunter, Just my opinion of course, but I think by your comment in a post about a woman who took a 2 hour defense course and survived an attempted rape, you appear to be talking about her. She is what the thread is about.

But I do take your point that in a self defense course, students should be warned not to think they have just learned an entire MA systems methods, and learned how to instinctively apply them. They should also be taught that they are responsible for the learning and application of what they have learned. We can teach and attempt to facilitate learning, but the student must be responsible for what they learn or don't learn.

It would appear as if the lady mentioned did learn something somewhere. She kept her cool and responded in a way that prevented her from being raped and/or killed. From whatever source, she used something that worked for her in real life.

All that said, I agree with both of you that you didn't blame the victim. Headhunter, you showed yourself dubious of how much can be taught and learned in a two hour SD class, and I agree. But obviously, for some, they increase survivability.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@ Headhunter, Just my opinion of course, but I think by your comment in a post about a woman who took a 2 hour defense course and survived an attempted rape, you appear to be talking about her. She is what the thread is about.

But I do take your point that in a self defense course, students should be warned not to think they have just learned an entire MA systems methods, and learned how to instinctively apply them. They should also be taught that they are responsible for the learning and application of what they have learned. We can teach and attempt to facilitate learning, but the student must be responsible for what they learn or don't learn.

It would appear as if the lady mentioned did learn something somewhere. She kept her cool and responded in a way that prevented her from being raped and/or killed. From whatever source, she used something that worked for her in real life.

All that said, I agree with both of you that you didn't blame the victim. Headhunter, you showed yourself dubious of how much can be taught and learned in a two hour SD class, and I agree. But obviously, for some, they increase survivability.

(Disclosure: I teach SD seminars occasionally, and actually today discussed doing a 2-hour one for some women next month.)

My view of SD seminars is that they have 3 purposes:

1. Give the attendees useful information they can incorporate. This includes things like avoidance, target hardening, etc.
2. Give the attendees some quick, simple techniques they could apply without extensive training. If they practice them enough, they'll become habit. If they don't they might still show up under duress. It's a percentage change of the odds.
3. Give the attendees a chance to see how much there is to learn, if they are interested.

I think most SD seminars do a reasonable job of these. Some focus too much on #3. Some get lost trying to teach the "best" techniques, rather than the simplest, so miss on #2. Some probably forget to do anything with #1. I've yet to hear of one that didn't hit at least 2 of the 3 without seeming horrible to the participants.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Shame on me for thinking that a group of self proclaimed self defense experts couldn't just give this brave woman a cyber pat on the back for using what little training she had "in the real world" and living to tell about it. Shame on anyone who sees this story and smugly makes it somehow about their own superiority.

I didn't see anything like this in the discussions.

 

[Headhunter]

The nature of the internet is that I can post something, but have nothing to say about where the conversation goes from there. Fair enough. I will let this run down whatever path it does from here and won't try to redirect it again, but I am a little disappointed with how it's gone and I want to explain why before I do. And then you're all free to turn on me if that's what happens next. I really don't care. Where to start...?

First of all, let me say that I don't know this woman, but I know this park and have been there a million times, sometimes I even had the audacity to be there unaccompanied. It's not a bad neighborhood, though it is public and Seattle is a city. If my comments don't pertain to you, don't take offense, they are not directed at anyone in particular and I'm not personally calling anyone out.

The number one thing that people like to argue about on Martial Arts fora in this decade is "where's the proof that would work in the real world". To the consternation of many of us "the real world" is often regarded as either MMA or YouTube .

Here we have a verifiable story of a woman being violently assaulted by a recidivist predator in the actual real world and she successfully fought him off and went home with what most of us would consider minor injuries commonly associated with hard training. When I read this article, I was happy, I was proud and I was inspired to share it not only here, but with my students and other people in my extended training circles. Because, this is what real violence looks like...not sparring, not training, certainly not points tournaments. All of those things have their place and their value, but they are not "real fighting", this is.

I posted in the "general self defense" forum, because it's not about my style or your style or MMA or Ronda Rousey, it's about a normal person surviving an assault that occurred through no fault of her own in the actual real world.

Though I teach a traditional style, I also teach what I think is THE vital thing for survival in these situations, which she executed perfectly with little to no training. If you teach or talk about "self defense" I highly recommend a few books that may help you reconcile it to whatever training you do. My top 3 are "Strong on Defense" "Meditations on Violence" and "The Gift of Fear", but there are others. A quote from one of them that I thought of when I read this article is "Raping me is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done!" She went with "Not today MF'er!" over and over again and I might actually like that better.

When someone is raped and you say "What was she wearing?" "Had she been drinking?" or "She shouldn't have been there alone." you are victim blaming, which I will go on the record as a self defense teacher and a human being, as opposed to. She had a right to be in that park and she's not required to bring an escort for safety. She did nothing wrong. He's a criminal. She fought him off with tenacity that I hope my students have or learn, because honestly, if they are assaulted, it might be the one thing that matters.

Shame on me for thinking that a group of self proclaimed self defense experts couldn't just give this brave woman a cyber pat on the back for using what little training she had "in the real world" and living to tell about it. Shame on anyone who sees this story and smugly makes it somehow about their own superiority.

No one is blaming anyone I read this thread 3 times to check and nothing bad has been said, I made 2 comments saying it would've been more ideal to get out the restroom and into public but also said I didn't know enough to say any circumstances and also spoke about how the courses obviously helped her survive which is obviously good and she took good lessons from that. Then I said women shouldn't get a false sense of security from them either and are not elite trained fighters either. I never said anything bad anyone I actually did congratulate the women and said it was good that she used what she learned to help her. And i haven't seen anyone else say anything bad. You post something on a forum people are going to discuss it for what it is. Of course it's great that she escaped and well done to her but does that really need saying this is a martial arts forum so we're obviously to discuss the martial art side of it.

 

[Steve]

It's really hard to draw many firm conclusions from one event. I saw story on the news and my reaction is simply just glad she's okay. Good for her.

I've seen many of these stories, and while some identify a technique or martial arts training, other women point to their fitness or other things. The one thing they all have in common is a woman who is determined not to be a victim. I think there are several great ways to instill and promote that mentality, and if you're doing that, good for you.