chrispillertkd
Senior Master
I don't know what to tell you Chris, I've been pretty clear as to the point(s) I've stated. No where in either of my above posts did I say TKD is ineffective for SD.
I know, and as I said before I was pointing out that it was effective (and easy to teach) for people other than kids. I've posted before while Gen. Choi probably developed Taekwon-Do the way he did and moving it away from a self-defense aspect certainlty doesn't apply.
Now, too be clear, some venues of TKD i.e. sport training methodology TKD is generally VERY ineffective for SD. It is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole, it wasn't designed for it. But that wasn't anywhere in the point(s) I made above, and I believe I was very clear. My comments were strictly on the use of forms.
Yes, and my comments had nothing to do with sport training either.
It isnt' new at all, in fact, it goes back centuries for some forms. But this doesn't mean everyone is aware of alternate applications or even, as I pointed out above, has a use for alternate applications. They are simply there.
Which is why I pointed out the cyclical nature of posts in online forums.
A bit off topic, but well worth commenting on. A high kick can certainly be effective...if it connects. But that begs the question; will it connect?
The same can be asked for joint locks, sweeps, throws, pressure point strikes, indeed any technique. If you train for it then your chances of using it effectively increase dramatically. I've seen people's wrists just collapse when hitting the heavy bag with a basic punch because they don't train enough. But I'm not going to suggest punching isn't effective.
Training to high kick someone, in a controlled environment, in loose fitting clothing, while warmed up/stretched out, on a dry, flat, level surface, in well-lit conditions, under pre-arranged rule sets is quite different than attempting to high kick someone in a chaotic fight, in street clothes, at a time that is very probably disadvantageous to you (read: you're not warmed up/stretched out/in a loose fitting Gi), in an environment that could be closed in (read: elevator, stairwell, alley, between parked cars, traffic, innocent by-standers), on a surface that could be sloping, wet, loose, probably in dim-light conditions where the attacker is under no obligations to allow you to pull off your favorite move.
Speaking from personal experience, yes they will work in self-defense situations even if you're pulled off balance or taken by surprise or in an enclosed space like a narrow hallway. I certainly wasn't in a uniform standing in class doing line drills.
With no offense intended, I would prefer someone versed in realistic fighting skills at a variety of ranges and proficent in gross-motor skills to someone trying to use a refined-motor skill movement designed for sport.
Me too. Which is why the ROK army guy is going to destroy the alternative applications dude 99% of the time. A high turning kick is a gross motor movement and is quite capable of knocking someone for a loop (even from a sitting position on a couch). I know.
The more refined skills can be very effective, like I said before. But it's a question of putting the training time in. I know alternative applications people who simply don't do so. There are also some who come up with applications that I would say are at least as ineffective as the "traditional" applications they critisize.
Pax,
Chris