Season 1 Episode 6: Green Beret vs Spetsnaz

Discussion in 'The Deadliest Warriors' started by Bob Hubbard, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Episode 6: Green Beret vs Spetsnaz

    Green Beret Team: Matt Anderson (Former Green Beret), Sgt. George Gomez (Green Beret Instructor)
    Spetsnaz Team: Sonny Puzikas (Former Spetsnaz Operative), Maxim Franz (Former naval Spetsnaz Operative)

    Green Beret Weapons: Mossberg Shotgun, M67 Grenade, E-Tool, M4A1 Carbine, M24 Rifle, Beretta Pistol
    Spetsnaz Weapons: Saiga Shotgun, RGD-5 Grenade, Ballistic Knife, AK74 Carbine, Dragunov Rifle, Makarov Pistol

    Green Beret Spetsnaz Advantage
    Close Range: Beretta Pistol Makarov Pistol Makarov Pistol
    Mid Range: Mossberg Shotgun Saiga Shotgun Saiga Shotgun
    Long Range M4A1 Carbine M24 Rifle AK74 Carbine Dragunov Rifle Even M24 Rifle
    Special Weapons: E-Tool Ballistic Knife Ballistic Knife
    Explosive Weapons: M67 Grenade RGD-5 Grenade M67 Grenade

    -Both pistols were shot at targets while navigating a specially designed target course using a night vision device. The Spetsnaz was able to eliminate all three targets without causing friendly casualties. While the Green Beret was able to navigate the same course in less time (completing the course five seconds sooner than the Spetsnaz) and also without friendly casualties, the Green Beret was only able to kill one target, leaving one target able to fight back in wounded condition and the final target nearly unscathed. The Makarov won due to its shooter's skill despite having a smaller magazine.
    -The Mossberg was shot at a pig and put four rounds in under four seconds. The Saiga was shot at four targets in under three seconds. The edge was given to the Saiga due to its semi-auto capability.
    -The AK74 and M4 were determined to be equal as the users shot all the targets. It came down to the user's sniper rifles. The Dragunov and M24 were tested on multiple targets. The Dragunov missed its targets by at least an inch to either side, while the M24 hit all its targets right in the centre. The M24 took the advantage due to its greater accuracy.
    -The Ballistic Knife went up against the E-Tool. The E-Tool was tested on a gel torso and managed to almost remove the head, as well as slicing into the intestines, causing them to spill out of the body cavity. The ballistic knife was tested on three glass orbs and penetrated all three, at a velocity of 39 mph. In a very close comparison, the ballistic knife was chosen due to its ranged capability and portability.
    -The RGD5 was detonated inside of a washing machine surrounded by standees and managed to take out one standee and put a piece of the machine in another standee at 40 feet. The M67 was detonated in a clear box with two dummies and a pig, and managed to take them all out. The M67 won due to its larger blast radius.

    Simulation 6

    This battle is the same as Yakuza vs Mafia, with a 5-vs-5 format and a new environment.
    The simulation begins in an abandoned city (clearly a war zone) when a Spetsnaz squad appears moving toward and entering a warehouse. A Green Beret unit enters the warehouse from the other side and throws a M67 grenade before entering, injuring a Spetsnaz operative. They enter and kill the Spetsnaz with their M4A1 carbines. A hidden Spetsnaz kills a Green Beret with his Saiga-12 but is then killed by a passing Green Beret. The remaining Green Berets enter a hallway as Spetsnaz enter too. A Spetsnaz fires his AK-74 at a passing Green Beret, but misses. As they both continue, a Green Beret sneaks up to the room with the Spetsnaz and throws a grenade in it, killing him. As the Green Beret continue, another Spetsnaz fires and is killed when a Green Beret shoots him with his Mossberg 590. The Spetsnaz commander kills a passing Green Beret with his AK-74 and kills another one who tried to sneak up one him. As he searches for more Green Berets, he spots one and kills him and continues his search. The Green Beret commander spots him and fires, but misses and follows him. The Green Beret finds him in a dark hallway behind some columns, hiding. Seeing that if he goes in there, he may get ambushed, the Green Beret shoots out all the light bulbs with his M4, draws his Beretta M9, and puts on his night vision goggles. He sees the Spetsnaz commander's AK-74 and shoots it out of his hand. He follows the retreating Spetsnaz, firing along the way and missing all his shots. The Spetsnaz runs into the boiler room just as the Green Beret sees he has emptied his magazine. The Green Beret corners the Spetsnaz in the boiler room and draws his E-Tool. The Spetsnaz draws his ballistic knife in response. The Green Beret strikes first, as he lunges at the Spetsnaz who dodges the strike. The Green Beret recovers and knocks out the Spetsnaz's knife who clinches to his E-Tool, in hopes of disarming him. They both get into a struggle. When the Spetsnaz appears to be winning, the Green Beret knocks him down, but the Spetsnaz kicks him back. The Spetsnaz makes the killing blow with his ballistic knife by shooting the Green Beret in the neck. He yells "Ya Spetsnaz!" ("I am Spetsnaz" in Russian) and quips "No one will ever defeat us" in Russian to the dead Green Beret. Then he leaves the building.

    Overall Winner: Spetsnaz

    In another bout of similar opponents the Spetsnaz won, owing to the superior weapon skills and accuracy of its experts. This was another squad battle, was again very close (in fact the second closest battle on the show, with only seven wins beyond the simulation's margin for error preventing the match-up from being statistically too close to call) and again highly subject to some personal interpretation of the skills of the individual combatant. Strangely, the Spetsnaz RGD-5 grenade and Makarov PM handgun as well as both the American M24 and the Russian Dragunov sniper rifles were not used in the simulation.

    Green Beret Spetsnaz
    Overall Kills: 481 519
    Close Range: Beretta Pistol: 4 Makarov Pistol: 12
    Mid Range: Mossberg Shotgun: 42 Saiga Shotgun: 104
    Long Range: M4A1 Carbine: 311 M24 Rifle: 85 AK74 Carbine: 288 Dragonov Rifle: 84
    Special Weapons: E-Tool: 3 Ballistic Knife: 7
    Explosive Weapons: M67 Grenade: 36 RGD-5 Grenade: 24

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior

     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  2. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

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    One of the things I did appreciate in this episode was the willingness of the Russians to demonstrate not only on each other as all the experts did but to also invite the show hosts (specifically that one guy that is a Karate Black belt) to take some free shots and such. The show was pretty entertaining.

    Regards
    Brian King
     
  3. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I liked how they said it was a close call. I'd hazard that if they ran another 1,000 tests, it might drift the other way. To me, this showed more so that special forces regardless of nation are a pretty well trained and tough bunch.
     
  4. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    If you think this show has any scientific validity..or that you really think that one side is better than the other based on what weapons and people this show selects. Well you watch too much TV.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  5. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

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    Did they ever mention the "karate black belt's" style? I can't remember if they ever did.
     
  6. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

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    Bob wrote


    Roger that Bob, I have been lucky to have been able to train with a few from a bunch of different nations, while not many were ‘experts’ in H2H (some were) they were all tough and motivated and trained very honestly and were a heck of a lot of fun to work with to a man.

    Archangel M wrote:


    Not sure which "you" you are talking to umm but thanks for stating the obvious!

    Omar B wrote


    Not sure Omar, I don’t watch much TV and the above episode is the only one I watched all the way through till the end and then only because I am friends with the two representing the Russians. I know that they (the show) mention he had a black belt in most of the episodes, I guess to legitimize his opinions? Other than working with Max I did not see him doing any martial arts in any of the other episodes so am not sure what style he has trained in. Perhaps one of the threads in the more general topic area of deadliest warrior area might be a better place to put the question rather than an episode specific thread?

    Regards
    Brian King
     
  7. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    Call it entertainment all you want, we all know that there will be a significant demographic that will believe that this stuff is "proof" of something. Much like many of the kiddos I hear proclaiming that some weapon or tactic is superior because of what they saw in Call of Duty or SOCOM on the X-Box.
     
  8. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

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    Yup, some believe Elvis is a God and that man has never traveled to the moon…so what? What in the world does that have to do with episode 6 Green Beret vs Spetsnaz? Are you trying to say that the “kiddos” that you talk to are going to travel to Moscow and try to enlist in the Russian military because they think they are the best, or that they will not enlist in the U.S. military because of some TV show? Do you have the same concerns for any of the other episodes or is your hard on just for this particular episode? Just wondering why you are participating in this thread other than to save us from ourselves because we are too stupid to recognize entertainment for what it is? Perhaps voice your plea against the ignorant in a separate thread, “why TV is not real” as headline or “Warning, this show is entertainment and I must save you from having any enjoyment cause somewhere there is someone that might take it serious” type of thread. Lighten up and stick to the topic if you can, just saying.

    Regards
    Brian
     
  9. Archangel M

    Archangel M Senior Master

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    No..I whined and complained about the Samurai one too. You so gung-ho because you know someone who stared in it?
     
  10. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

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    Trying to pull the thread topic back on topic,
    I did like the shotgun tests. The Mossberg is a fine weapon (I own two) but standing and shooting a large hole into a pig carcass while entertaining, I guess, is not much of a test. I did like how Sonny stepped up when challenged to beat the time of the stationary SF gunner who was shooting at a single target by shooting several different targets all while moving and doing it faster. It showed a difference in mind-set, training and results. Not sure if it would have been possible if they had been armed the same as the Saiga is a magazine feed auto shotgun (meaning you do not have to pump an action after each round and can simple pull the trigger). I do like the idea of moving and shooting rather than standing in one location or moving forward in a straight line and shooting for combat efficiency testing.
    Regards
    Brian King
     
  11. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

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    Sorry Arch I didn't see this as we cross posted. Yup, pretty much. Both guys are Systema instructors that I have been able to train with and do call friends with Sonny being a close friend. Also I have been able to work with many of the weapons demonstrated so combined with knowing both personally and knowing the weapons yup I enjoyed watching the episode. LOL it also helps that they easily won and had fun doing it. Even at that I do not have much to say about any of the other episodes other than it is entertainment that is sort of entertaining unlike what seems to be on TV mostly, heck hard to be gung-ho or get to worked up about a series when I do not have access to TV at my house, but yup overall it is fun to watch your friends doing something that they enjoy doing, don't you think so? I have always been open about it. Is that a bad thing?

    Regards
    Brian King
     
  12. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    As Brian has pointed out, we're talking elite, highly trained, well-equipped modern professional soldiers who specialize in countering each other's tactics and equipment. I figure it's going to be "Wonder Warthog vs. Wonder Warthog".

    The really important thing to consider is that a soldier is part of a team. You're not going to see set-piece duels. It will come down to how well them men function as units. In this case, both will be superb.
     
  13. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    Special Forces and Spetznaz are both elite units, but they both have two different roles.

    Special Forces primary role is to link up with and train indigenous insurgency forces.

    Spetznaz are more similar to the SAS in purpose and design.
     
  14. LoneRider

    LoneRider Purple Belt

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    Agreed. If they wanted to do a Direct Action unit versus a Direct Action unit the 75th Ranger Regiment would've been a better opponent. Green Berets are capable DA forces but that's only one of the many varied skill sets they have under their hats.
     
  15. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    Fair enough. The point I was somewhat ineptly trying to make is both are intimately familiar with the other's equipment, doctrine and tactics. Both are past masters of a modern soldier's professional skills. The first guy to pull the trigger and hit or take a swing and connect is going to be the survivor.
     
  16. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    What I found amusing is the hype about the Saiga shotgun. The reason the SF in the US rely on Remmington and Mossberg shotguns is that in really bad climates and environments they still work as needed.

    We had a couple of our department firearms instructors go to a shotgun course a while back and 3-4 other instructors brought their Saiga's. The Saiga's were the only shotguns that had misfires and jams. Too many parts for it to work smoothly in alot of conditions you find yourself in.

    Back to that, when you are dealing with SF vs SF units, there are WAY too many variables to take into account other than just weapons used. Both units are high level units that plan for a VERY specific mission, they wouldn't undertake the mission unless they know they are going to win it going in. Otherwise you use a different tactic.
     

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