Sanshou/Sanda

[Xue Sheng]

Sanshou/Sanda is a product of the PLA (People's Liberation Army) of China. During the 1960s after extensive study by the
Chinese government of the old Chinese styles of fighting (Kung Fu) and then combining those techniques which they thought
were best with a modern view of fighting and combat they produced Sanshou (Qinna Gedou). It is based on realistic fighting
ability and not the performance of elaborate forms. This is the origin of the Military version of Sanshou and all others come
from this root.

Sanshou (In Chinese means: free hand) or Sanda (In Chinese means: free fighting) Sanshou/Sanda is composed of different
aspects of traditional Chinese fighting systems. It is made up of Kung Fu (Quan Fa), Qinna, boxing, kick boxing and Shuai
jiao. There are 4 version of Sanda or Sanshou in China, Military (Qinna Gedou), Police, Civilian and Sport.

Military, Police and Civilian Sanshou training involves training/practicing various punches, kicks, locks, chokes, throws,
grappling, wrestling, ground fighting as well as weapon defense drills, 2 person drills and sparring. There are no patterns
or formal stances, and no qigong exercises.

In Sanshou for sport (Chinese kick boxing) there are certain techniques that are not permitted in the ring during a sanshou
competition these techniques are elbow strikes, choke holds and joint locks. Also in a Sanshou competition it is possible to
defeat an opponent by moving him out of the ring. Training for Sport Sanshou is very similar to kickboxing training, except
they also include extensive drilling on throws and sweeps.

 

[crushing]

Intersting background and information, thank you.

I've seen few 'fights' (I think they were ISKA) using Sanshou rules on ESPN2. I think they all involved Cung Le throwing or sweeping some poor guy to the canvas over and over and over.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Slight correction needed here

Actually you can put Sanda into 2 categories Military/Police and Civilian/Sport.

My apologies for the error

 

[JBrainard]

I've seen few 'fights' (I think they were ISKA) using Sanshou rules on ESPN2. I think they all involved Cung Le throwing or sweeping some poor guy to the canvas over and over and over.

Yeah, you kinda have to feel sorry for the people who fight Cung Le. He pretty much owns sport Sanshou. Although, last time I checked, he's coaching now instead of fighting.

 

[tiktok86]

Cung Le is an awesome fighter to watch...very skilled. The rules of Sanshou are very similar to the rules that my school fights under, KuoShu. Fighting on the elevated Lei Tai (platform, no ropes), full-contact fighting that is broken up when it goes to the ground. Only difference that I can see is that KuoShu rules allow knees and elbows, as well as joint locks (although since the whistle is blown once a competitor goes to the ground, you never see it happen). Deliberate strikes to the back of the head and knees/groin/throat are not allowed.

Thanks for the background Xue Sheng!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yeah, you kinda have to feel sorry for the people who fight Cung Le. He pretty much owns sport Sanshou. Although, last time I checked, he's coaching now instead of fighting.

He was also doing the MMA thing for a while too, but I haven't been following it lately. But you are right he did pretty much own Sanshou. Cung Le is an awesome fighter.

Cung Le is an awesome fighter to watch...very skilled. The rules of Sanshou are very similar to the rules that my school fights under, KuoShu. Fighting on the elevated Lei Tai (platform, no ropes), full-contact fighting that is broken up when it goes to the ground. Only difference that I can see is that KuoShu rules allow knees and elbows, as well as joint locks (although since the whistle is blown once a competitor goes to the ground, you never see it happen). Deliberate strikes to the back of the head and knees/groin/throat are not allowed.

Thanks for the background Xue Sheng!

Cool, do I see another Sanshou guy on MT?

I have been looking for the various rules of Sanshou matches just to compare. I train the military/Police version so I am not familiar with the rules but I would like to see them one of these days. It is my understanding that on Mainland China the rules are a little different, basically you win by throwing your opponent out of the ring or by submission I think, but I could be wrong here.

 

[tiktok86]

At the tournaments my school competes in, the fight is not won by throwing the opponent off of the Lei Tai but rather by points. 5 judges (excluding the ref) who watch the fight and keep track of points for an overall score. 1 point for clear hard strike contact (punch, kick, knee, elbow, etc) or for a throw where the "thrower" lands on top. 2 points for a clean throw where the thrower keeps on his feet. 2 points for a kick or punch that knocks the opponent down. 3 points for getting the opponent off of the Lei Tai platform. 1 point deduction for losing balance.

3 rounds, 1.5 to 2.5 minutes each, winner is best of 3. Equipment permitted is gloves (fingerless), cup, shoes (lightweight, but if one person fights barefoot then both must), and headgear. The headgear is pretty light, with a plastic grill in the face...mostly prevents damage to the ears and face.

I've personally trained and fought KuoShu, but was never all that great. My wife, on the other end, has gotten quite skilled having fought in 5 tournament thus far.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have not fought any tournaments, although I am thinking about it (even though I am a bit old for it). I train the police/military version and the very first thing my Sifu said to me was "I Know nothing about sport Sanda"

But I am rather interested in the sports side of it and I might just try a match one of these days (One reason I am interested in the rules), that or maybe train it a bit the next time I'm in Beijing.

Glad to ahve another Sanda guy on MT, Welcome.

 

[kidswarrior]

This short treatise was very interesting. Wanted to make one qualifying note though. The Sanshou you are speaking about is not the same as Kung Fu San Soo, which was introduced in America by Jimmy H Woo (Chin Siu Dek). Jimmy arrived in the states probably in the 1920s (depending on whether one believes a BD of 1906 or not), and was by most accounts an illegal immigrant (though he kept this secret virtualy his whole life). He opened a commercial studio in El Monte, California in 1962, and taught his Art--which is not adaptable to sport--into his upper 70s.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This short treatise was very interesting. Wanted to make one qualifying note though. The Sanshou you are speaking about is not the same as Kung Fu San Soo, which was introduced in America by Jimmy H Woo (Chin Siu Dek). Jimmy arrived in the states probably in the 1920s (depending on whether one believes a BD of 1906 or not), and was by most accounts an illegal immigrant (though he kept this secret virtualy his whole life). He opened a commercial studio in El Monte, California in 1962, and taught his Art--which is not adaptable to sport--into his upper 70s.

Yes that is very true but did I miss something in the post previously that mentioned San soo?

EDIT:

Now that I think about it, whether or not previously mentioned it is a good point to make. I have been in discussions before where people have confused the 2 - Thanks

 

[MaartenSFS]

I have to throw in my two 元 here...

1) The term Sanda is much older than the 1960s. It basically means free fighting and all forms of CMA should have that. The Sanda that you see today actually began to develop around 1914 in Nanjing, while it hasn't changed much after the 1960s.

2) I think that you are confusing the term Qinna Gedou with Qindiquan. Qinna Gedou is a new system that was developed by pooling together Qinna techniques from various different styles around China. Qindiquan is what most Wujing (Military police) study. It can be translated as Catch Your Enemy Fist, whereas Qinna Gedou means Qinna Combat.

3) And neither of those two are Sanda. They are what they are.

4) Sanda was also heavily influenced by WMA (Not Womens' Basketball Association!), especially that of Russia.

5) There are "forms/patterns" in Sanda, but they are very short. Mabubiangongbu chongquan and Tantui Chongquan come to mind first. These are foundation exercises and are trained rigourously. Also, most Sanda practitioners "cross-train" in Taolu (forms).

6) The term Sanshou is rarely used in China, which is where Sanda is from.

7) Most (If not all) Sanda instructors will tell you that the reason that they don't practise Qinna is not because it's too deadly, but because compared to Ti (Kick), Da (Strike), and Shuai (+jiao) Na (Qin+) has little (If any) use. I literaly got my **** kicked every day until I changed my mind about that so take it from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. A new student came in last week talking about Neijiagong (Internal MA) and its AWESOME POWER. My Shifu only said one word: "来" (Lai). That means "come", as in come here and try it. He is not egotistical at all. He has a policy. Talking is useless so if we can use our ideas/interpretations on him (Which we can't at this stage) then we can continue to use them on the streets.

I hope that cleared some things up. Anyone is welcome to come here and train with us.

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have to throw in my two 元 here...

1) The term Sanda is much older than the 1960s. It basically means free fighting and all forms of CMA should have that. The Sanda that you see today actually began to develop around 1914 in Nanjing, while it hasn't changed much after the 1960s.

Yes I know and I didn't know that it began in 1914, thanks

2) I think that you are confusing the term Qinna Gedou with Qindiquan. Qinna Gedou is a new system that was developed by pooling together Qinna techniques from various different styles around China. Qindiquan is what most Wujing (Military police) study. It can be translated as Catch Your Enemy Fist, whereas Qinna Gedou means Qinna Combat.

Yup, I found that out after I made the original post, thanks for the clarification

4) Sanda was also heavily influenced by WMA (Not Womens' Basketball Association!), especially that of Russia.

Didn't know that but not surprised to hear it, particularly based on the relationship Russia and China had at one point.

I am however glad to hear that Woman's Basketball had nothing to do with it. I was never to good at Basketball

5) There are "forms/patterns" in Sanda, but they are very short. Mabubiangongbu chongquan and Tantui Chongquan come to mind first. These are foundation exercises and are trained rigourously. Also, most Sanda practitioners "cross-train" in Taolu (forms).

Have not got to any forms/patterns yet but also I am not surprised to hear this. I also know my Sifu has cross-trained in other styles, not exactly sure which though.

6) The term Sanshou is rarely used in China, which is where Sanda is from.

Yes and no, but more yes than no. My Sifu never calls it Sanshou always Sanda. However in Beijing it seems many use the term Sanshou. But then Beijing, although a large city, is really only a small part of China.

7) Most (If not all) Sanda instructors will tell you that the reason that they don't practise Qinna is not because it's too deadly, but because compared to Ti (Kick), Da (Strike), and Shuai (+jiao) Na (Qin+) has little (If any) use. I literaly got my **** kicked every day until I changed my mind about that so take it from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. A new student came in last week talking about Neijiagong (Internal MA) and its AWESOME POWER. My Shifu only said one word: "来" (Lai). That means "come", as in come here and try it. He is not egotistical at all. He has a policy. Talking is useless so if we can use our ideas/interpretations on him (Which we can't at this stage) then we can continue to use them on the streets.

I hope that cleared some things up. Anyone is welcome to come here and train with us.

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

Thanks. I am fairly new to Sanda training, but so far it is great. My Sifu appears to not be egotistical at all either, which I cannot say for all Sifus I have studied with over the years in other styles. He does teach at least some Qinna but he is, so far, more focused on had strikes and kicks. He is from the (WAY) North of China so I am not sure if that makes any difference as to what would be taught or not.

As to the awesome power of internal styles. I have trained mostly internal styles. Prior to Sanda (Taiji and Xingyi mainly) and I would not be crazy enough to walk into any school with an attitude such as that. It is a great way to get your butt kicked.

I knew my Sifu for a while before I ever knew he trained Sanda, I always had the feeling that I did not want to challenge him to a fight however (even with my AWSOME POWERS of INTERNAL CMA). Our offices are fairly close so we go for walks at lunch from time to time and on one of these walks he started telling me about Sanda and how long he has trained and why he does not open a school and why he is so choosy about who he will even talk to about it. And then asked me if I wanted to learn, I said yes and he began to make me do a whole lot of basic training, pull ups, sit ups, etc. Basic palm strike training basic kicking and of course stretching.

We are in a bit of a hiatus right now while I make a decision about my training that he has told me I need to make and after that depending on the decision it will be likely back to painful training outside in all kinds of weather as usual.

If I may ask a question, is your Sifu big on hitting very hard objects for training strikes? I have joked about this way to much here on MT and since realizing that I have toned it down a bit, but my Sifu is really big on hitting trees and I do see where that will certainly train you how to hit and condition your feet, hands, forearms, legs, etc to be able to hit hard, I was just wondering if that was common to Sanda training

 

[MaartenSFS]

I am however glad to hear that Woman's Basketball had nothing to do with it. I was never to good at Basketball

Eh... Me too. I mostly hate basketball because everyone feels that I should play it because I'm tall. And because I suck at it.

Yes and no, but more yes than no. My Sifu never calls it Sanshou always Sanda. However in Beijing it seems many use the term Sanshou. But then Beijing, although a large city, is really only a small part of China.

I'm surprised about Beijing. I thought the term Sanshou was only used in the Guangdong area in southern China, but I imagine it has to do with Beijing being more international.

Thanks. I am fairly new to Sanda training, but so far it is great. My Sifu appears to not be egotistical at all either, which I cannot say for all Sifus I have studied with over the years in other styles. He does teach at least some Qinna but he is, so far, more focused on had strikes and kicks. He is from the (WAY) North of China so I am not sure if that makes any difference as to what would be taught or not.

Good. 99% of MA instructors in China are aresholes. I have met and trained with my fair share, but will never again. I don't think that it matters where your instructor is from so much as what he was taught and his own interpretation. Sanda is more like a blanket term and every instructor will have their own take on it. Some are better with hands, legs, shuaijiao... Some are well rounded. Some even mix in IMA principles.

As to the awesome power of internal styles. I have trained mostly internal styles. Prior to Sanda (Taiji and Xingyi mainly) and I would not be crazy enough to walk into any school with an attitude such as that. It is a great way to get your butt kicked.

My point was not that they are useless, just that many of their practitioners have the belief that they are invincible because...... Most of them could not use what they have learned in combat. Moreover.. there are some things that are inherently flawed in the IMA. For example, IMA combat principles are FAR more important than the actual techniques that are learnt. Taiji principles can be applied VERY WELL to Shuaijiao, but using the actual techniques will most likely get your **** shuai-ed.

I knew my Sifu for a while before I ever knew he trained Sanda, I always had the feeling that I did not want to challenge him to a fight however (even with my AWSOME POWERS of INTERNAL CMA). Our offices are fairly close so we go for walks at lunch from time to time and on one of these walks he started telling me about Sanda and how long he has trained and why he does not open a school and why he is so choosy about who he will even talk to about it. And then asked me if I wanted to learn, I said yes and he began to make me do a whole lot of basic training, pull ups, sit ups, etc. Basic palm strike training basic kicking and of course stretching.

Palm strikes? Do you mean punches? As far as I know Sanda teaches no palm strikes unless it is an open hand Baiquan (More or less like a hook punch), which I like to use as it minimises damage to the hand.

We are in a bit of a hiatus right now while I make a decision about my training that he has told me I need to make and after that depending on the decision it will be likely back to painful training outside in all kinds of weather as usual.

You should try training here. In the winter it can be zero degrees (C) - INSIDE. In the summer it gets over 40 degrees (C). Both are like training in the bowels of Hell. My Shifu also shows no mercy to me (I can't stand the temperature extremes).

If I may ask a question, is your Sifu big on hitting very hard objects for training strikes? I have joked about this way to much here on MT and since realizing that I have toned it down a bit, but my Sifu is really big on hitting trees and I do see where that will certainly train you how to hit and condition your feet, hands, forearms, legs, etc to be able to hit hard, I was just wondering if that was common to Sanda training

While this type of training is common, my Shifu does not advocate it. We train terrible low stances and use a weight-lifting machine to build up leg strength. We kick heavy bags and pads to test our speed and strength. We kick the air to train posture and speed (The most difficult). We also kick the wall at an angle to make sure that our instep stays straight, but we don't use much power for this. There is no point in extreme conditioning like you have mentioned as you will regret it in the future when you can't walk straight.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm surprised about Beijing. I thought the term Sanshou was only used in the Guangdong area in southern China, but I imagine it has to do with Beijing being more international.

They still use the Term Sanda in Beijing but I did hear Sanshou there. There are even a couple of catch all CMA schools in Beijing (Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji, Sanshou, etc.) that are teaching Sanshou and not calling it Sanda. But that could be more for the westerners that go there too. And it is always the sports version.

Good. 99% of MA instructors in China are aresholes. I have met and trained with my fair share, but will never again. I don't think that it matters where your instructor is from so much as what he was taught and his own interpretation. Sanda is more like a blanket term and every instructor will have their own take on it. Some are better with hands, legs, shuaijiao... Some are well rounded. Some even mix in IMA principles.

I do not know all of what my sifu has trained. I do know he has trained Sanda, which is his only style as far as he is concerned, for many years. I also found out he has trained some Xingyi and Bagua but not that much. He knows the animal forms of Xingyi and I do not know what he knows of Bagua, just that he trained some.

My point was not that they are useless, just that many of their practitioners have the belief that they are invincible because...... Most of them could not use what they have learned in combat. Moreover.. there are some things that are inherently flawed in the IMA. For example, IMA combat principles are FAR more important than the actual techniques that are learnt. Taiji principles can be applied VERY WELL to Shuaijiao, but using the actual techniques will most likely get your **** shuai-ed.

I did not take it as you thought it was useless. I have trained mainly Yang Taiji for the last 12 years and I cannot tell you how many attitudes I have run into that are as you described. I have also trained Chen and they are there too but they seem to be of a lesser degree than Yang. But that could be just because I have trained Yang longer so I have just run into more attitudes. I came from a TKD and Jujitsu background prior to CMA so I believe (or at least hope) I know its limitations and strengths and I know if I walk up to a Sanda sifu (or for that matter my XIngyi sifu) and start telling them how invincible I am because I train Taiji and I only use Taiji to prove this to them…… well, I am going to get hurt. However my Taiji sifu might fair much better, he has trained Taiji and only taiji for about 50 years and he comes from Hong Kong where he started his training. But I do not have his level of skill, nor would he walk up to anyone and proclaim superiority. Actually he is another one that does not tell anybody outside of his class that he even knows any CMA.

Palm strikes? Do you mean punches? As far as I know Sanda teaches no palm strikes unless it is an open hand Baiquan (More or less like a hook punch), which I like to use as it minimises damage to the hand.

Actually I meant palm strikes. Much like a straight punch would be from a western boxer in a guard position except palm. Stand in Ma Bu standing in front of a tree and start hitting. We are also training forearm strikes this way as well (just not facing the tree). Punches not yet, and I am told not on trees. Don’t know what my fists will be hitting but I am happy to say it is not trees.

You should try training here. In the winter it can be zero degrees (C) - INSIDE. In the summer it gets over 40 degrees (C). Both are like training in the bowels of Hell. My Shifu also shows no mercy to me (I can't stand the temperature extremes).

This past winter it was in the low teens and single digits here (Fahrenheit) and I showed up in 2 layers of coats, a hat and gloves and my sifu had on a coat. He thought it was rather nice out. Of course where he is from I believe he said the average temp in the winter is -20C.

While this type of training is common, my Shifu does not advocate it. We train terrible low stances and use a weight-lifting machine to build up leg strength. We kick heavy bags and pads to test our speed and strength. We kick the air to train posture and speed (The most difficult). We also kick the wall at an angle to make sure that our instep stays straight, but we don't use much power for this. There is no point in extreme conditioning like you have mentioned as you will regret it in the future when you can't walk straight.

Low stances we use, but I told him about the new heavy bag I bought this last year and the very first thing he said was “why?” He does have me kicking in the air to train posture and speed and I am very appreciative of his honesty in what was in the beginning my LACK of proper posture…. It is better now. Actually I would not tell him this but I have always found it pretty amusing to watch a Good Chinese Sifu that is not happy with his students progress and to hear the brutally honest comments they make. There are not many, at least in my area, that are as brutally honest and I feel that the student them suffers. I don’t laugh when he makes these comments by the way, I just make the corrections, but internally I’m fairly amused, sometimes in pain form the correction lesson, but still amused.

He currently appears rather healthy and walks upright and faster than I do but I have at times wondered about the kicking of trees. The palm strikes and forearm stuff does not bother me but I have not yet been able to elbow a tree, just can’t get myself to do it. However I am told depending on what happens next month that my training is about to change. I am guessing (well a bit better than a guess) that we start Qinna soon. I have done Qinna training before, but not so much recently.

 

[MaartenSFS]

Actually I meant palm strikes. Much like a straight punch would be from a western boxer in a guard position except palm. Stand in Ma Bu standing in front of a tree and start hitting. We are also training forearm strikes this way as well (just not facing the tree). Punches not yet, and I am told not on trees. Don’t know what my fists will be hitting but I am happy to say it is not trees.

O, in that case it is not learning how to strike, but hardenning the hands so that if they don't hurt when you ht a tree they certainly won't hurt if you hit a skull. WHATEVER YOU DO, NEVER HIT ANYTHING EXCEPT BAGS OF SORTS WITH A CLOSED FIST. To train outer hardness hit things with the back of your hands, and preferably a flat surface. It will feel wonderful.

Low stances we use, but I told him about the new heavy bag I bought this last year and the very first thing he said was “why?” He does have me kicking in the air to train posture and speed and I am very appreciative of his honesty in what was in the beginning my LACK of proper posture…. It is better now. Actually I would not tell him this but I have always found it pretty amusing to watch a Good Chinese Sifu that is not happy with his students progress and to hear the brutally honest comments they make. There are not many, at least in my area, that are as brutally honest and I feel that the student them suffers. I don’t laugh when he makes these comments by the way, I just make the corrections, but internally I’m fairly amused, sometimes in pain form the correction lesson, but still amused.

My Shifu is more or less the same, hence my improvement. Definitely the most difficult thing about training kicks is kicking air. Because you know how much you suck, yourself, without any sounds and feelings of power that you get from kicking a bag/pad/person. The air does not lie!

He currently appears rather healthy and walks upright and faster than I do but I have at times wondered about the kicking of trees. The palm strikes and forearm stuff does not bother me but I have not yet been able to elbow a tree, just can’t get myself to do it. However I am told depending on what happens next month that my training is about to change. I am guessing (well a bit better than a guess) that we start Qinna soon. I have done Qinna training before, but not so much recently.

Unless he teaches you to break a person's balance first and then use Qinna try to stay away from that. It's mostly IF... Then... IF... Then... IF... Then... Situations. Which means: If I use Qinna... I will get my **** kicked - usually. Learning how to kick and punch first. Then learn how to fall and how not to let other people Shuai you. Lastly learn how to Shuai other people. If you still hunger for more after that you can try to start learning some Qinna. But beware, you will then be getting into LARPing territory.

My Shifu never taught us a single Shuaijiao technique for about four months and just let us go at it and we learned ourselves.

 

[kidswarrior]

Gentlemen, my kung fu knowledge is not on par wth yours so please excuse the intrusion. But am learning as I follow your discourse, so wanted to encourage its continuance.

Definitely the most difficult thing about training kicks is kicking air. Because you know how much you suck, yourself, without any sounds and feelings of power that you get from kicking a bag/pad/person. The air does not lie!

Never thought of this, but now it's crystal clear. This is why kids & NooBs love to kick things that make noise--doesn't matter to them what/how they kicked.

Unless he teaches you to break a person's balance first and then use Qinna try to stay away from that. It's mostly IF... Then... IF... Then... IF... Then... Situations. Which means: If I use Qinna... I will get my **** kicked - usually. Learning how to kick and punch first.

I've heard this expressed as Strike to disrupt (and create the qinna opening); Disrupt to strike (take his balance or center, then attack).

 

[MaartenSFS]

Never thought of this, but now it's crystal clear. This is why kids & NooBs love to kick things that make noise--doesn't matter to them what/how they kicked.

EXACTLY, but you still need to do it with them to train for power. Also, the bag simulates actually kicking someone best.

I've heard this expressed as Strike to disrupt (and create the qinna opening); Disrupt to strike (take his balance or center, then attack).

No, that is still incorrect. You Shuai (Take them down) them and then use Qinna either while their balance is ****ed up or on the ground, with the latter taking priority. 99% of the time standing Qinna will not work against a resisting enemy (So not including drunkards and children).

 

[Xue Sheng]

Unless he teaches you to break a person's balance first and then use Qinna try to stay away from that. It's mostly IF... Then... IF... Then... IF... Then... Situations. Which means: If I use Qinna... I will get my **** kicked - usually. Learning how to kick and punch first. Then learn how to fall and how not to let other people Shuai you. Lastly learn how to Shuai other people. If you still hunger for more after that you can try to start learning some Qinna. But beware, you will then be getting into LARPing territory.

My Shifu never taught us a single Shuaijiao technique for about four months and just let us go at it and we learned ourselves.

I may be in error now that I think about it. It may not be Qinna, it may be Shuaijiao now that I sit and think logically about it. I may have jumped to conclusions based on what I was told and the last time I trained Qinna years ago (and a bit more recently in Xingyi). I can say what I know is that I will be falling on the ground a lot more soon. Which in retrospect says more Shuaijiao than Qinna.

My bad, sorry about that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

No, that is still incorrect. You Shuai (Take them down) them and then use Qinna either while their balance is ****ed up or on the ground, with the latter taking priority. 99% of the time standing Qinna will not work against a resisting enemy (So not including drunkards and children).

Again this tells me I was in error and that it will likely not be Qinna that will be throwing me around soon but Shuaijiao tech.

Also what you have said here agrees with what was said by the Gentleman I first learned Qinna from. It also shows me that I have become a bit addle brained and forgetful in my old age. Hopefully the training to come will beat the sense back into me. :uhyeah:

 

[kidswarrior]

Again this tells me I was in error and that it will likely not be Qinna that will be throwing me around soon but Shuaijiao tech.

Think I made the same mistake. Good to get it straightened out. :ultracool