S&T: Dealing with a bigger opponent

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
How many people out there practice bobbing and weaving?
You obviously don't want to turn the fight into a kungfu movie where you are trying to block and parry all of your opponents strikes, but an understanding of such a fundamental boxing strategy would be of great use.

I teach bobbing and weaving along with footwork. If he is in a left lead, you step right, away from the power hand, vice versa for a right lead. Its not a long drawn out thing at all. Its fighting realistically for a real fight.

Anybody claiming a JKD or Jun Fan Gung-Fu background trains that way to answer directly to that question.

I prefer the right lead. Its heavily practiced in JKD and its a common stance for a BJJ fighter as well, both of which I'm experienced in. I'm going to attach a closeup pic for a common hand position for me just before the clinch. It is a little hard to see my right hand, but I'm pushing his left down while preparing to divert his right arm to cross over his left.

Note: its a way of practicing that I'm comfortable with. In a real fight what I practice will come out but in an order that is appropriate for the situation at hand.

 

[sweeper]

I might have mentioned this before but my brother had a detatched retna, he got hit in the face with a soccer ball. I know it doesn't take alot of force but at the same time I have been hit in the eyes with a finger jab and I even nailed a freind in the eye with my thumb on a short cross, both of us are fine. You may detach a retna with relativly little power but you may not and you can't count on it.. Also a detatched retna isn't incredably painfull so if you just hit one eye they might not know what happened and they may continue to fight.

As to the joint lock thing, I'm realy bad at pulling them off and yeah I would only do it if it fell into my hands, but what I realy mean is I wouldn't go for the kill so to speak, I would be looking for the least brutal looking method have incopacitating my opponant.

In a dance club or at a football game you might not have room for much footwork or bobing, you might and of course that would always be nice, but you might not.

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
So does the whole kick to the nuts thing not work anymore?

The pain from a shot to the groin isn't instantaneous, and if someone's been hit there before (like those of us with younger siblings), the pain it does cause may not have much effect. I personally would choose attacking the knees over the groin.

 

[sweeper]

Hit hard enough and you can take someone out.. but it realy has to be a solid hit, when the person is driven to attack it might not desuade them, but on the otherhand they may desided you arne't worth it.

 

[bart]

In a niteclub or a spectator event, the last thing that you want to do is attract attention. You don't want to bob and weave without a punch to bob or weave from. Punchless bobbing and weaving attracts attention from the opponent's friends and from security, or even cheap shotters from the gallery. Pulling out a gun or a knife will attract attention too. That's to be avoided. In CA it's a good way to get into the inmate dating scene anyway. Pulling out
a knife or a gun can raise something from a little brawl to a killing.

Getting your *** kicked ain't worth killing someone over.

The next thing is that you don't want to grapple if you can avoid it. Where the crowd is thick you want to end things quickly. If you go to the ground for the most part you WILL get stomped and most of the time the opponents friends WILL kick you and they don't care about kicking their friend in an effort to get you. Cheap shotters WILL hit and kick you for fun, and you'll be rollling around on broken glass or blacktop, puke or even urine. This is especially true if you are the security at a concert or niteclub.

A big guy needs room to swing for the most part. The big guys that don't need room to swing you should run from. They know what you do and better and they've got more meat behind their punches. If you can't run, then control balance, through trapping or breathing through short punches to the ribs underneath where the armpits are and slightly to the front or the point right underneath the sternum. These can control breathing and won't cause any permanent damage. Unless you have practice, don't go for a knockout punch or eyestrike to the face. It's high up on tall guys and you're exposed when you do it. Focus on what you've got. Look at targets that are easily reachable. Knees, solar plexus, stomach, bladder, groin, elbows, arms, neck. Hit those targets with the edge of the knuckles, or some other narrow surface and not a flat fist.

As for striking to the groin, the pain is not immediate, and most guys can keep going for a few seconds after being hit. That few seconds can be filled with quite a few punches aimed at you. Also after a few hits to the groin in the same fight, it stops getting any worse for the most part and it loses effect on them.

Don't let him grab you. If you do that, big guys are strong, in my case usually they're stronger than me. If they grab you, you have no choice but to do moves that attract attention. Also they often have longer reach and can hold onto you and hit you while you can't hit them back in the trunk or head with your arms.

Another thing at these places is drugs. A lot of big guys that I've had to deal with have been high on something. They don't feel pain the same way if they even feel it at all. They also don't care too much about being disfigured, even if you show them the skin, hair, or body art. With those guys, you have to control motion or breathing. That means broken bones, dislocations, chokeouts, or knockouts.

There's always more to it of course, but in my experience these are some guidelines. I think the bouncer guys Kenpo Yahoo was going to talk to my share some of my opinions.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Unfortunately, the person that percieved this is beligerant and a little bit bigger than you.

This is the scenario we always train for since people smaller & weaker than yourself don’t normally attack you.

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Assuming that you have no alternative but to fight, formulate a good S&T approach to surviving/evading/defeating your opponent in this confrontation. Please don't assume total stupidity on the point of your attacker.
Since I'm about average height and weight, by bigger I mean 6 foot plus and 200-260lbs

These are the basic kind of things we work on.
If you want to see what we actually do here is a website for our dojo in Poland. This was a seminar so the techniques in the mpegs you will see are done rather slowly and were done for teaching and explanation purposes only. The actual techniques are done much quicker without any pauses.
http://www.kempo.org.pl/ramka.html
It's in Polish. You'll need to go to the section called "GALERIA" to see the mpegs.

The Okinawan gentleman is my teacher and he weighs roughly 160 lbs., the other gentleman you see is about 190~210lbs. and was a former member of the Polish Olympic Judo team.

 

[James Kovacich]

Bart, you slightly misunderstood. I myself, nor would I expect a student of mine to start bobbing and weaving before a fight.

Bobbing and weaving, footwork, trapping, strikes and kicks are just single tools that are a part of the "whole" when practiced together make for a difficult opponent since "most" people aren't that skilled.

I've trained with a couple wing chun guys that used come in to train with my Sifu here in the bay area so I have an idea of your approach.

But it is my opinion if the punches start flying and you are the smaller one, bobbing and weaving is a positive.

 

[bart]

But it is my opinion if the punches start flying and you are the smaller one, bobbing and weaving is a positive.

I agree wholeheartedly.

To clarify myself, I've seen a few situations where people bobbed and weaved, before any punches were thrown. That was detrimental and somewhat comical. It also attracted a lot of attention.

Bobbing and weaving is positive once there are punches or strikes to avoid.

 

[Sanddragon]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Gee, since I am 6'3" and about 275 lbs, I guess I do not fit into the bigger but the huge catagory?

Seriously, I seem to have the exact opposite problem. That little guy that seems to think that buy running into me and pretending to be offended it allows him to swing.

So, if I swing first I am the bad guy for beating up the little guy.

If I wait I could get hurt.

Any recommendations on what should be done. Many times, the chance to offer to buy a beer is not even a possiblility for these guys go from jerk to fight in 0.6 seconds.


Curious about your input

I have to agree with Rich here, being of almost the exact same size, why is it that so many little guys seem to feel that they can bump into to us and use the napoleon complex that they suffer from and take the first swing?

I also agree you usually never have the chance to say oh excuse me let buy you a beer because they are usually out to prove something by hitting someone larger.

As for my solution Rich, I have tried to avoid and then restrain my opponent when possible. Otherwise I would just deal with it the best and least damaging way I possibly could.

 

[bart]

Alot of guys with that particular complex have never really had their asses kicked. They depend alot on other people breaking it up or the big guy having the ability to restrain himself. It's an ego thing and unfortunately "the system" supports it.

Also big guys have a similar style of complex where some of them don't like to be told anything by somebody smaller. Another ego situation.

 

[Skarbromantis]

Big guys are only big, when faced head on, turn a big guy to the side and he is not as big anymore, footwork, get to his side, strike the sides of the knees, kidneys, ribs, control the arm, side of the neck, temple, fake high to strike low, attack low to strike high, forget the chest and belly, or front of the head, stick to the side, practise yor footwork.

Skard1

 

[bob919]

angainst tall heavy people aim for their knees most tall heavy people have weak knees pound at them when he goes down you can kick him or walk away actually taller people's balls are in a shorter persons punching range thi is why being tall isn't always a good thing