Revenge? As a Martial Artist?

[Corporal Hicks]

Hi people,

I was wondering what your thoughts on the issue of revenge was being Martial Artists? Should we restrain from acting out any type of "payback" or revenge?

Cheers

 

[shesulsa]

Generally, I believe in Karma and don't think much of revenge itself. For the most part, my experience has been that events take strange turns and we all learn our lessons in the long run, don't we? And if one does not, why waste further energy? A person's intentions are usually revealed.

Karma is the best justice I know and, sometimes, the only justice there is in certain instances.

I can't answer beyond that statement without more specific examples or details.

 

[Flatlander]

Interesting question. You know, I have been wronged in a severe way in the past, by a peer and good friend. I felt so betrayed that my thoughts turned to revenge, sick revenge, and stayed there for a long time. Even now, when the subject comes up, I feel those stirrings of vengeance deep within my mind in the places I don't like to look.

But I must restrain myself. This is not to say "I'm just sooooo dangerous that the disgusting brutality of my revenge would sicken the masses". Not at all. I must restrain myself because I cannot afford to endanger myself, because I have a family to whom I am responsible, and other obligations to meet. I must restrain myself because to commit an atrocious act is to become a criminal, and that is a bridge that I refuse to cross. I must restrain myself because I have vowed to hold myself to a higher standard than my father, that I may be a better role model for my daughter. I must restrain myself because to harm another human unnecessarily is in itself, a sub human act. I must restrain myself because the best revenge is to allow this man to teach himself, to feel his own remorse, and to live in his own shame for what he has done, without my further acknowledgement.

Good question, you get a rep point. :asian:

 

[D_Brady]

It seems to me you left it a little open. In general ?

I may get a flag on the field for this but here goes.

If somebody dents my car, I call the insurence company and no more.

An adult hurts my children and I know where he is, marialartist or not I think the DAD instincts may take over (right or wrong).

A situation very close to that happened but the boy was 14 and my youngest defended her self from him on her 9th birthday. when she finally told me how he came to the play ground his bike and then chained her and her friends bikes together so they couldn't ride off. Then he went after them.

I did let the police handle it and they told me how he was removed from his mom because of a situation and now lives with his grandmother. He also see's a doctor 3 days a week for his problem. I said then why is he living a 1000 yards from an elementary school, and that he would have done worse if my daughter was not the fighter she was.

So as much as throwing him in front of a speeding,(well never mind )would have made my day. He was 14 and I let the police do their job, and I'm not in jail because I made the call to them.

But again if he had been an adult and I had been there. (right or wrong)

Ok throw the flags on the field.

 

[Enson]

sometimes we don't realize that we have weapons in our hands. if we fight back we are always fighting back armed... because of training it is something we need to keep in mind when thoughts of revenge come to us.

i think everyone here has thought at some point to pay back. for those that know me know that i'm in a similar situation right now... just not a physical one!

peace

 

[MichiganTKD]

If someone insults my wife we both leave. If they follow, I get ready to defend us if necessary.
If someone calls me a motherf-er, I walk away.

If someone kills my wife or my children, I will kill them.

 

[TigerWoman]

If someone insults my wife we both leave. If they follow, I get ready to defend us if necessary.
If someone calls me a motherf-er, I walk away.

If someone kills my wife or my children, I will kill them.

I would probably feel the same way about my children and husband. But then, in the end they win, because they have ruined all of your lives. But one doesn't seem to have much more to lose then if the most important part of it is gone. And, if you are defending your life as well, that is not vengeance.

I believe in God, and that retribution is his. Throughout my life I have come to notice that the saying what goes around comes around is really true. People do get punished for what evil they do in one way or the other. TW

 

[MA-Caver]

"Revenge is a dish best served cold." ~multiple sources/origins

Retaliation seems to be a human thing. We're the only life form that does it on the planet. I don't mean by defense because that's different. Hurt someone and hours/days later they come back and do something in return just as nasty.
Control is what dictates a civilized human being. That and staying with the law(s) whatever they may be depending upon where you live. Having the control not to strike back shows maturity and civility.
As Martialist we train to inflict damage upon the human body. The why's are up to us, no? Thus the deeper we get into our individual arts the more control we are supposed to have. This is control extends to the mental and emotional as well as the physical. We should be maturing as human beings the further along we get into our arts. Retaliation and revenge is something kids do, the immature, the insane and disturbed.
This is why we have that 7-14 day waiting period when we want to buy a hand-gun. This is why we have the police and other LEO's to handle the situation should it be an assault on person or property. This is why we have the military to help defend against incursions into our homeland.
George Lucas wanted to call his third installment of the original Star Wars trilogy "Revenge of the Jedi" but fans said that "Revenge" is not a Jedi thing to do...thus he changed it to "Return." Now the third prequel is called "Revenge of the Sith" and no one is throwing up any guff on that. Naturally, the Siths are the bad guys.
Back on earth, we should be well aware of the things that we can do to another human being and the effect it has on them. We should also be aware of the effects it will have on us afterwards. Will we feel better because we got back at them? Will it make is better people? Will it make us better martial artists? If we're instructors (and I'm NOT ) how would this revenge mind set sit with (your) students?
We learn combative forms so that we will have no fear from our fellow man should he attack us. In the moment of attack we will/should defend. If one of our own is injured/attacked and we are present then we will/should defend. Going back later is revenge and not a true martialist's way.
On Karma, well if it is true then we should allow it to work it's way when it's time. For those who believe in (the Christian) God then trust Him to take care of it in His time. Otherwise call the cops and let them take care of it, where applicable.

 

[lonecoyote]

Revenge, once gotten, is actually a pretty hollow feeling. Not fulfilling at all. It makes you feel like less of a human being. Problem is, if you look at movies, especially martial arts movies and westerns, and action films, we glorify those who take revenge and settle the score. Haven't seen a movie glorifying forgiveness in a while. Forgiving, as opposed to getting revenge, actually is a fulfilling feeling, and actually helps you grow as a person. Everyone has their own threshold though, of things that can't be forgiven, and so do I.

 

[sojobow]

Generally, I believe in Karma and don't think much of revenge itself. For the most part, my experience has been that events take strange turns and we all learn our lessons in the long run, don't we? And if one does not, why waste further energy? A person's intentions are usually revealed.

Karma is the best justice I know and, sometimes, the only justice there is in certain instances.

I can't answer beyond that statement without more specific examples or details.

shesulsa presents us with mind-twister regarding Karma. Something she presents will keep us up thinking as the subject of Karma is very interesting. Personally, I favor Retribution or Recompense. Karma will naturally present us with the opportunity(ies) for Retribution. Of course, if our Martial Arts ability is non-existant or weak, the opportunity for this Retribution or Retribucioun, will be of no use until our practice has elavated our martial arts ability. Hopefully, Karma will reappear at that time.
Then again, why take up martial arts if you don't believe in the act of finality recompense? So when Corporal Hicks asks "Should we restrain from acting out any type of "payback" or revenge?" I'd say that it is
better to take up knitting or something if you don't believe. That the sole purpose of martial arts is war, is an answer unto itself.

 

[Flatlander]

That the sole purpose of martial arts is war, is an answer unto itself.

Is this the central premise of your training? Perhaps, though Sojobow, perchance it is not the same for all. Remember, all things are relative. Each will have their own reason for following the path of martial education. Mine is not to deliver agression, but to be saved from it. :asian:

 

[sojobow]

Is this the central premise of your training?

No.

Perhaps, though Sojobow, perchance it is not the same for all. Remember, all things are relative. Each will have their own reason for following the path of martial education. Mine is not to deliver agression, but to be saved from it. :asian:

I definately agree with the bold section above. This is one reason we have so many differenct systems/styles of martial arts. It will take a total commitment of your Spirit, Mind and Body.

There are other lesser paths to martial education that will suffice for a lesser commitment. Some chose only to concentrate educating their Body. As you say, it is relative.

But again, we're saying the same thing but my opinion is written not as well as your own.

(Post edited to remove statements that will cause redirection of theme of this thread)

 

[OC Kid]

I dont beleive in revenge. Every time in my life when I have set out for revenge I have been the one who lost. i beleieve in the Biblical law of reprocity or reeping of sowing or what goes around comes around. so I just try to relax bite my tongue and go on with my life knowing full well they will get theres. FWIW they usually do.

 

[Zepp]

I believe that martial artists have the same obligation to avoid violent retribution as non-martial artists do. I also believe that seeking retribution for the sake of retribution is wrong, and not simply because it's immoral. Setting out to hurt someone simply out of revenge will hurt you as well, either psycologically, or by hurting those around you in some way.

Retaliation seems to be a human thing. We're the only life form that does it on the planet.

I don't know that that's true. I've heard and seen cases where dogs, cats, and other primates have hurt others of their same species for no apparent reason other than revenge. But maybe that's just because they were emulating the humans around them.

 

[loki09789]

Hi people,

I was wondering what your thoughts on the issue of revenge was being Martial Artists? Should we restrain from acting out any type of "payback" or revenge?

Cheers

Yes, we should restrain. People, regardless of martial arts training or not, may be inclined/desire vengeance, but I don't think that causing pain (emotional, social, monetary, physical...) from a motive of vengeance is a sign of 'personal character' that is one of the intangible benefits of martial arts training - according to some.

 

[Sin]

I was in love over the summer....so much in love that i was going to ask this girl to marry me on graduation night. she went off to collage since she graduated a year earlier than me (Both the same age...she went to a boarding school) things where fine between the two of us for a month and a half. Then only two weeks after our aniversery. she says "i just had sex"......she cheated on me.......i was angry and even tried to hurt myself, i took it all out on myself. It was the worst feeling in the world. Now I am not as bad off and I am starting to feel better, although i still think back on it. i ask myself, "What would i be doing now if she didn't cheat"

She called me not long ago and she told me a few things, (considering at the time of the brake up i just wanted to kill her and the guy she was with.)

She told me that the guy she cheated on me with got her pregnat, cheated on her, dumped her, and about 3 weeks later two guys on the collages football team raped her. I must say all that is horrible. But what goes around comes around 10 times fold.

Poetic Justice......and I didn't cause one bad thing to happen to her.

 

[loki09789]

I was in love over the summer....so much in love that i was going to ask this girl to marry me on graduation night. she went off to collage since she graduated a year earlier than me (Both the same age...she went to a boarding school) things where fine between the two of us for a month and a half. Then only two weeks after our aniversery. she says "i just had sex"......she cheated on me.......i was angry and even tried to hurt myself, i took it all out on myself. It was the worst feeling in the world. Now I am not as bad off and I am starting to feel better, although i still think back on it. i ask myself, "What would i be doing now if she didn't cheat"

She called me not long ago and she told me a few things, (considering at the time of the brake up i just wanted to kill her and the guy she was with.)

She told me that the guy she cheated on me with got her pregnat, cheated on her, dumped her, and about 3 weeks later two guys on the collages football team raped her. I must say all that is horrible. But what goes around comes around 10 times fold.

Poetic Justice......and I didn't cause one bad thing to happen to her.

But, you seem to be taking some personal pleasure in her pain......not such a great expression of 'martial arts character' IMO.

 

[Sin]

No pleasure comes from her pain to me. This is the girl i wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I loved her more than myself. I wish for her to have a happy life. But you know stuff happens, this was just a major example in my life on how things come back at you when you do something bad.


....sorry if I seem kinda emotional over it......i mean it though i really did love her and it hurts me so much that she is hurting. i am now powerless to protect her.

 

[shesulsa]

shesulsa presents us with mind-twister regarding Karma. Something she presents will keep us up thinking as the subject of Karma is very interesting. Personally, I favor Retribution or Recompense. Karma will naturally present us with the opportunity(ies) for Retribution. Of course, if our Martial Arts ability is non-existant or weak, the opportunity for this Retribution or Retribucioun, will be of no use until our practice has elavated our martial arts ability. Hopefully, Karma will reappear at that time.
Then again, why take up martial arts if you don't believe in the act of finality recompense? So when Corporal Hicks asks "Should we restrain from acting out any type of "payback" or revenge?" I'd say that it is
better to take up knitting or something if you don't believe. That the sole purpose of martial arts is war, is an answer unto itself.

Well, I sat and knitted some more on an intricate entrelac piece I have been working on for almost two years while I contemplated your post. How on earth did you know I knitted? :idunno:

If the sole purpose of martial arts is war, why on earth are we teaching American children today to go to war? Adults over 35? Why is it available to the general public at all? Why are MAs not exclusive to military training alone? The martial arts became perfected in the temples by men who never intended to go to war, rather defend with their lives the importance of spirituality and sacred studies which include tenets which most are not able to espouse. If one cannot go to war with gratitude, humility and love for the enemy, how is one to recover from the trauma of disembowelling, decapitating, incinerating, dismembering the enemy? How would one find peace after performing and witnessing such gore? There is only one way - to make daily peace with one's creator or spiritual guide or personal belief system or whatever you wish to call it. To accept that one must follow orders in times of war and do one's job as gruesome and sometimes pointless as it seems.

Violent revenge was acceptable in the dynasties of Asia, but those times on this earth have passed. And living revenge will only engage one in a cycle one is unable to escape from.

Battle alone does not a warrior make.

G

 

[loki09789]

No pleasure comes from her pain to me. This is the girl i wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I loved her more than myself. I wish for her to have a happy life. But you know stuff happens, this was just a major example in my life on how things come back at you when you do something bad.


....sorry if I seem kinda emotional over it......i mean it though i really did love her and it hurts me so much that she is hurting. i am now powerless to protect her.

And to automatically link her rape/pregnancy/assault as a direct result of her infidelity to you is about as logical as saying the 9/11 attack was because America deserved it for some reason....

When you use phrases like "poetic justice" in this context, you are implying that she got what she deserved for cheating on you.