Responsibility for 9/11

[Makalakumu]

Al-qaeda is responsible for 9/11. The carried out the attack on the World Trade Center and it was a truly horrifying experience for us all. I do not believe the conspiracy theories that state that our government pulled off the attacks in order to destroy our constitutional rights and control us. (I do think that our President has used the attacks to shamelessly push some radical legislation, though...ie the patriot act and the war in Iraq) My question is this, do we bear any responsibility for 9/11? How do our policies abroad increase the level of hatred felt toward america? Its always easy to say it was THIER fault and that is that, but, I think, its important to see this from both sides. So, what do you think?

upnorthkyosa

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
Al-qaeda is responsible for 9/11. The carried out the attack on the World Trade Center and it was a truly horrifying experience for us all. I do not believe the conspiracy theories that state that our government pulled off the attacks in order to destroy our constitutional rights and control us. (I do think that our President has used the attacks to shamelessly push some radical legislation, though...ie the patriot act and the war in Iraq) My question is this, do we bear any responsibility for 9/11? How do our policies abroad increase the level of hatred felt toward america? Its always easy to say it was THIER fault and that is that, but, I think, its important to see this from both sides. So, what do you think?

upnorthkyosa

well in 1948 or so the nation of Israel was re-created in what was Palestine. The entire Islamic community cried foul, but they did it any way. The bible and the fact that Irael did happen to be in that spot 2000 years ago aside, the entire Islamic world is just a little upset about us(the Us, Europe, and Jews from all over the world) setting up a western nation right smack dab in the middle of the holy land. And then we gave them nukes! I, for one, can see why they might be lashing out, but that's just me.
Sean

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Who can we really blame?

A group of pissed off Islamic extremists? (The guys who hijacked and crashed the planes)

The border patrol, immegration, the FBI, the CIA, etc? (Gov. agencies that repeatedly dropped the ball and failed to do what they were supposed to do)

Airport security and screeners? (Who repeatedly failed, and still do, to detect threats to the safety of the passagers and crew)

The US Government? (Who has stated months earlier that they would be in ground action in Afghanastan, and who when the Afghanistan action failed to deflect public attention fully from corporate scandels and a failed domestic policy, rewrote history, and launched the Iraqi campaign?)

The US Public? (For being sheep and allowing too many government groups think, speak, and act for them, rather than -being- the government.)

Or, all of the above?


Perhaps the government knew the attacks would take place, allowed them to take place to give excuses to launch the military actions in an attempt to deflect attention from an administration that has no real domestic policy, and who took power under questionable means? Would GWB and his administration willingly sacrifice the lives of thousands of our citizens, and billions and billions of dollars (which are dearer to their hearts) just so they could look good? Sure does sound a bit nuts.

But then again, so does a bullet that makes 2 90' turns in mid air and inflicts 7 wounds.

Course, we bought that one too.

 

[Makalakumu]

I don't buy the magic bullet theory and I don't buy the "Paul Wellstone's plane crash because of pilot error theory." (I think that one is local) I would like to see 9/11 investigated by a truly independent commision. Not by Henry Kissinger for gods sake!!! Why is Bush resisting this? Yes, I know, secrecy - how convenient. They have used these attacks for their benefit so much that it is unnatural to not ask what they knew and when they knew it.

As far as responsibility goes, I think we need to look at our economic policies, rather then our support of Isreal. We are not known for our support of human rights around the world. Yeah, we don't abuse our citizens like China (because we all have guns) we do abuse others and profusely. Perhaps our exploitative world view is coming back to bite us.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
Al-qaeda is responsible for 9/11.

I think you have already answered your own question. Giving direct responsibility to anyone else than those who did it is ridiculous.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Aristotle separated causalities, if memory serves, into a) formal, b) final, c) material, d) efficient.

Or, we could go with that whole Pat Robertson lesbians, liberals and the ACLU theory...

 

[Makalakumu]

Two boys are fighting at school. The teacher breaks up the fight and sends both boys to the principal office. The teacher, who saw the last punch says that the boy who threw it is responsible for the fight. Does this sound logical? No, because it isn't. My question is this...did we throw the first punch? If so, what was it?

 

[Makalakumu]

Now to stir the pot

Read any of these websites and tell me that you have no doubts about the official story.

1. This one is so well researched that its leaves you breathless at the end. Its long.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html

2. This is a true conspiracy theory. I think it is problematic and unbeleivable in its entirety, but it does raise some interesting questions which is why I would like to share it.

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

3. This is an analysis of the events at the pentagon and it also raises of interesting questions.

http://physics911.org/net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3

4. Did the President know anything before hand?

http://pilger.carlton.com/print/124759

Is there anyone out there that does not believe the official story. I am not a proponant of any of the theories posted above, but I think that collectively, they take the official story and trash as much as what has been done in the analysis of the assassination of JFK. Each peice presented above is like the Dallas coroners report, the magic bullet, and the Zapruder film. Collectively they expose a lie. I want to know what actually happened. Does anyone else want to know?

What do you think now?

upnorthkyosa

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, it's a lot easier looking for Big Subterranian Plots than looking at corporate America, which is pretty much right on the surface.

 

[Makalakumu]

Did you read the first posting, Robert? It is well researched and interesting.

I agree that these conspiracy theories are wacky, but they raise doubts about the official story. Besides, there is an obvious connection to surficial corporate plots...

 

[Makalakumu]

Accidents happen. Yet, this kind of thing will only make them hate us more. Is the war a diversion so we do not look to see our responsibility? Is the war making it worse?


THE AMERICAN WARPLANE was targeting Mullah Wazir, once a local commander for the hard-line Islamic militia. U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and a U.S. military official said Wazir was killed in the attack, but residents and local officials said Wazir escaped — or was not in the village at all.
The residents reported at least one adult man, possibly a Wazir relative, was killed along with the children.
The strike was the latest U.S. air attack to kill Afghan civilians as American-led forces hunt for remnants of the Taliban and al-Qaida who have stepped up violence in southern and eastern Afghanistan.

U.N. CRITICISM
The United Nation’s envoy to Afghanistan, Lakhdar Brahimi, said he was “profoundly distressed” by the attack in the village of Hutala. The airstrike, “which follows similar incidents, adds to a sense of insecurity and fear in the country,” Brahimi said.
The government of Afghan President Hamid Karzai said it fully supported fighting terrorism but urged the U.S.-led coalition to “be very careful not to repeat such tragedies.”
Meanwhile, two Turkish engineers and an Afghan were kidnapped outside Kabul, officials said Sunday. The report follows the abduction of two Indian engineers by Taliban militants, who are increasingly targeting foreign workers and aid groups helping in the country’s reconstruction.
In Hutala, a field was pockmarked by dozens of small craters from the American A-160 aircraft’s guns. There were pools of blood and articles of children’s clothing were strewn on the ground.
“They were just playing ball, and then the shots came down,” said Hamidullah, a distraught villager who said his eight-year-old son, Habibullah, was among those killed. Like many Afghans, they only have one name.
‘At the time we initiated the attack, we did not know there were children nearby.’
— U.S. ARMY MAJ. CHRISTOPHER E. WEST
The village lies about 100 miles southwest of Kabul, along the main road between the capital and the main southern city Kandahar, in Ghazni province, which has seen numberous Taliban attacks, including the Nov. 16 slaying of a French U.S. aid worker.
Khalilzad and U.S. Army Maj. Christopher E. West said U.S. troops went to Hutala and identified Wazir among the dead. They also discovered the bodies of the nine children.
“At the time we initiated the attack, we did not know there were children nearby,” West said from the U.S. military headquarters at Bagram, north of Kabul.
Khalilzad said he was “deeply saddened” by the “tragic loss of innocent life,” and had spoken to Karzai. A senior U.S. military officer and Afghan officials were meeting Sunday with the bereaved families, he said.

VILLAGERS SAY TARGET WASN’T KILLED
But Hamidullah said the man killed along with the children was a cousin of Wazir named Abdul Hamid. Another villager said Wazir had left two weeks earlier.
Jawaid Khan, secretary of Ghazni’s governor, also said Wazir was not killed.
“The people there are very afraid. They have no idea why the Americans bombed their village,” said Khan. He put the number of children killed at eight and said two other men were also killed.
About a dozen U.S. soldiers stood guard outside a mud house in Hutala that locals said belonged to Wazir.
West called Wazir a “known terrorist.” But Wazir was not known as a major player during the regime of the hardline Islamic Taliban militia, which was ousted two years ago by U.S.-led forces.
Khalilzad said Wazir “had bragged of his personal involvement in attacks on innocent Afghan citizens.” Local Afghan official Ahmad Zia Masood said that Wazir himself fired at U.S. helicopters on Friday.
West said U.S. troops had collected “extensive intelligence over an extended period of time” and located Wazir at an “isolated, rural site.”
The 11,500 U.S.-led troops hunting Taliban and al-Qaida remnants often are supported by air power, and there have been a string of incidents where warplanes have mistakenly killed civilians.
By an AP count from hospitals and other reliable sources conducted in February 2002, at least 500 to 600 Afghan civilians were killed by airstrikes during the U.S.-led campaign that removed the Taliban. Since then, as American forces try to stamp out Taliban fighters, more deaths have occurred.
The worst incident was in July 2002, when Afghan officials said 48 civilians at a wedding party were killed and 117 wounded by a U.S. Air Force AC-130 gunship in Uruzgan province, which borders Ghazni province.
On April 9, a U.S. warplane mistakenly bombed a home, killing 11 civilians. Another air strike in Nuristan province in eastern Afghanistan on Oct. 31 reportedly killed at least eight civilians in a house.
Taliban attacks have prompted international aid agencies to reduce operations in Afghanistan’s south and east.

TALIBAN KIDNAPPINGS
On Friday, men burst into the office of a Turkish construction company just outside the capital, Kabul, and abducted two Turkish workers and an Afghan one, said Nick Downie of the Afghanistan NGO Security Office, which protects aid workers in the country.
Turkish and Afghan officials said Sunday the incident may not have been political in motive. In Ankara, Turkish foreign ministry spokesman Huseyin Dirioz said the two Turks were either abducted as part of a feud between two rival villages or went willingly to sort out the dispute.
Afghan Interior Minister Ali Ahmad Jalali said the three were held by Afzal Khan, a former militia commander, over a land dispute. The Turks were involved in a project for new wells in the region. Jalali said the government was negotiating for their release and they would be freed “soon.”
On Saturday, suspected Taliban kidnapped two Indian engineers working on the Kabul-Kandahar road, a reconstruction project mainly funded by the United States. The road was to be officially opened later this month. A Taliban spokesman claimed it was holding them.
Taliban recently freed a Turkish engineer from the project after a month in captivity.
Taliban attacks have plagued the flagship project. Four construction workers were killed in August, and de-mining operations along the road were suspended last month after a carjacking. The Turkish engineer was abducted along the road Oct. 30, and released after one month.
© 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.