Required reading for Hapkidoists

[greendragon]

As most people understand you cannot learn Hapkido from a book. There is too many hidden variables that are not in the pictures. A good Hapkido book is only a reference tool nothing more. I find that someone that doesn't practice Hapkido with a competent instructor can in no way learn by the book.. on the flip side of that if you are already adept in Hapkido and understand the basic concepts involved in the movement and application then the good books make sense. Your mind can fill in the areas of sequencing between the pictures and you can actually visualize the movement taking place... this comes from doing the movements yourself prior to seeing the book and not the other way around....because of this I don't think you can add the subtle theories and stepping in a Hapkido book, this has to be done on the mat... and by feel... which is one of the human senses used a lot in Hapkido practice.
Michael Tomlinson

 

[Paul B]

Thanks Guys.

You both bring up excellent points,and that is what I meant by "know(or should)by now that"....

Don't you guys think that maybe it could help those unfortunate souls "stuck" in a "static" training rut,through an exposure to new ideas? Maybe such a theoretical work might help somebody look at techniques in a new light? Heck...I have nowhere near your guys' experience,but I think it could really do no harm.

I am aware that some people don't like to think. But maybe such a book could be a valuable reference to those who do.

BTW Bruce....that's funny and truely sad that it was such a fiasco. I have seen that myself when people go from training statically from a grab and then have to use dynamic motion for a strike,why do you think that is?!?:idunno:

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Paul:

Its hard to respond in detail to your thoughts, but I think that Michael gave the best general response overall. There is a point at which, if one wants to progress with their Hapkido art (and this is regardless of organizational affiliation) that what is required is to simply experience the movement kinesthetically. This is a huge part of what I was trying to convey on another string when I made such a big thing about my experience in Korea. The amount of Kinesthetic information I received truly exceeded anything that I have had in the last few years. That doesn't mean that it would be impossible to find such an experience in the US, or that there is not the potential for people to do this if they are not doing it already. What I mean is that without focus a person could experience, say, 100 techniques before beginning to realize something new about the technique, whereas with the correct focus a person might have the same experience with, say, 10 repetitions. Many times what I have found in the US is more of a focus on WHAT a person is trying to do rather than HOW a person is doing it. And to pursue investigation along these lines Michael is completely correct. The technique must be experienced for all of the subtlties. Now if a person is only interested in dropping someone on their butt, well gross motor skills can be picked up just about anywhere including books, tapes and in the backyard with friends.

Now as far as being in a rut, or looking for exposure to new ideas, well thats what people join groups for. In traditional Korean MA the kwan serves this purpose. Here in the West joining an organization is suppose to be the remedy. The problem I have seen is that once a person joins an organization there starts to be a kind of "us" and "them" spirit that takes over and people start talking about who has THE inside information, or is teaching the most "authentic" art. ( I can report that I had a very uncomfortable experience with my own private students exactly along this line.) Having heard this processed a number of different ways in Korea I can honestly report that things only got as far as someone identifying another people as "different". I know that a lot of people make a big deal about why folks can't simply get together and train and exchange ideas and so forth. Unfortunately ego is a fact of life and most folks simply won't let it go.

As far as the shift from static to dynamic attacks, there are certain things that seem to uniformly get in the way. The biggest thing is that people are instructed in such a way that they will always take the long way to competence in training. By this I mean that most folks who use the Confucian Model for learning simply have TOO much to think about all at once and it DOES take a long time before the mind can sort out what is important and what isn't. I don't know why people continue to use this teaching model as unless a person WANTS to spend their lives to learn an art and keep it vital it doesn't make a lot of sense. When I use the Academic Approach I work to keep things as uniform and simply as possible. In this way I want to help the student to find those all important patterns, make it easier for them to retain information, and find an overall logic as we move from point A to point B. In this way, when its time to do a static technique under dynamic circumstances the person has only a small bit to add, subtract or modify and not a "whole new technique" to learn. Hope this last paragraph made sense.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[greendragon]

That is a good learning tool Bruce,, knowing the why it works is important... I like to teach the techiques and then explain the technique literally from the ground up.. stepping first,, then posture etc... I'll let everyone go through this rudimentary stage for a while and then I'll come back and do what I call "sharpening the knife" which is just my term of fixing the small pieces of their technique.. during this phase I explain plenty of times why and how things work and why and how they don't and or can be countered when some part of the overall technique is wrong... lastly after they can do the technique pretty well I have them teach it to someone else... in the education field we call this "cooperative learning", once you have to verbalize you internalize.... overall I like to teach from general to specific...I have foung if you teach specific first you lose the big picture and quite a few people get confused...
Michael Tomlinson

 

[Paul B]

Yes,that is a great observation about people wanting to know the end result instead of how or why the technique "works". How can you "will" someone to dig deeper?

I think such a book,if it existed,might just open some eyes,no? Or...if it does exist,where can I find it? I just think it would be interesting to read,and maybe pick up a new perspective or aspect of a particular technique,ya know? That you can't learn technique from a book is a given,but why not applied theory or simple exposure to another method without having to join a different kwan? Thoughts?

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael:

When I was in school for my teachers' certification (lo, these many years back...) the term for that approach was "shaping". I still use it and for the very reason that you pointed out. The fast kids are always ahead of the curve but the teaching model does not leave the slower students in the dirt.

Dear Paul:

A good example of the sort of book you might be looking for might be something along the lines of what Nakayama did for Shotokan Karate. Certainly we have Funakoshis' textbook but it tended to be more along the philosophical lines. Nakayamas' book was more of a "this is how we stand, and heres' a good reason for doing it that way."

As far as actually inciting or encouraging people to learn the key is to have them understand how what they are doing will produce a direct benefit. The problem with this reason-driven approach is that when the reason goes away the students motivation goes with it. Purpose-driven motivation comes from inside of the student and is much more powerful, but also harder to reveal and engage. A student in this case a.) knows something fundamental about themselves and b.) wants to change that something into something else. Its not the sort of thing a teacher identifies without getting to know the student pretty well, and there are not that many teachers who are motivated to want to do this in the first place.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

there are not that many teachers who are motivated to want to do this in the first place.

Why do you think that is? Is it the "clone" mentality? "This is the way I learned it,so that's the way it is,no need to dig deeper!" I am sincerely interested in senior practitioners' opinions,and please don't "hold back",I am here to learn!

Also,is there such a book for Hapkido? Thanks.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Paul:

Its what is loosely known as a "dirty contract".

People gather together under the pretense of learning a martial art except--

a.) the teacher (who is mostly likely unqualified to teach) is only interested in cash flow and will corrupt whatever he is teaching into whatever people will buy if it will keep the money flowing his way.
&
b.) the student, for their part actually don't want to learn a martial art but will pay for the illusion of learning a martial art.

The key to the whole ugly interaction is that the student wants to "buy an image" and the the teacher is out to sell an image. The student will give money if the teacher "agrees not to be too demanding". The teacher agrees not to be too demanding if the student will agree to keep the money coming at a reasonably constant rate.

Pretty simple, cut and dried. Are there actually enough sincere practitioners? Sure but not usually enough in any one single location to keep a decent KMA school going.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

That's......yeah,ugly. I have been very fortunate in my studies to not come across these type of people often. Mutual parasitism is indeed a problem in some schools,but don't you think they are the more the exception?

Thanks for your help.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Paul:

".......That's......yeah,ugly. I have been very fortunate in my studies to not come across these type of people often. Mutual parasitism is indeed a problem in some schools,but don't you think they are the more the exception?...."

I wish they were but the facts speak otherwise. It has become common practice for people who teach Hapkido to organize "childrens' classes" not because these kids can make edcuated decisions about their training or get taught the same curriculum but because it keeps the doors open. It has become common practice to test people with a non-fail attitude such that all folks are moved to the next level (once they pay their fees) whether they have the proper skill level or not. It has become common practice for people to hop from organization to organization and negotiate promotions based on the number of students that they bring to the new organization rather than skill level or knowledge base. It has become common practice for people to mix and match a variety of traditions to address short-comings in understanding or application of Hapkido rather than stick with Hapkido and accept it on its own merits. And when all of these practitioners are weeded out and put to one side who is left in the class. Certainly there are some dedicated practitioners, but again its not enough to keep the doors open and the lights on. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[howard]

i would recommend the book daito-ryu aikijujutsu: hiden mokuroku ikkajo, by katsuyuki kondo (current head of the mainstream japanese daito ryu organization) and stanley pranin. check www.aikidojournal.com for info about the book and to order it online. it's a nice quality paperback, less than $30.

if daito ryu is in fact the source of our art, this book is a great source of original information. it provides detailed, photographic illustrations of the first 30 formal daito ryu techniques, as well as a brief history of the art.

if nothing else, reading this book will give you a greater appreciation for aiki, and will probably lead you to a clearer understanding of how pervasive the concept of aiki / hapki is in hapkido.

unfortunately from our perspective, the book offers nothing to help establish the truth (or falsehood) of the choi / takeda connection.

 

[glad2bhere]

From a little different standpoint you may also like DAITO-RYU AIKIJUJUTSU by Stanley Pranin (ISBN 4-900586-18-8). For those looking for a technical manual this book won't help much. What it is are transcriptions of interviews with some of the genuine greats from the DRAJJ discipline. Sometimes, when a person wants to seek out traditions it pays to hear the same story told a number of times by a number of people. Its not that one person is telling the truth and everyone else is lying. Rather there are many views and versions of what happens and hearing a number of views brings us closer to the most accurate history. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

Thank you for your recommendations,guys.

I do have to say that if a book covers Aiki,I more than likely have it,or have read it. I do have a couple of videos by Kondo Sensei,and they are spectacular!(at least to me)

I am familiar with the Aiki "concepts" that are readily apparent in Hapkido,but was wondering why that has never been addressed in book about Hapkido,specifically? The great leap I see between Aiki/Hapki is in application,but the theory is all there,but rarely exposed.