reducing kick telegraphy

[achilles]

I hate giving this away, but I'm tired of only reading video testimonials and the same political rhetoric that's been around for years...

One of the things I've been developing lately (more like refining), is the abdominal action of my low line kicks. Now there are definitely reasons to lean back (extra reach, keep the head away from attacks, etc.), but by using a side crunch like action to bring the lead hip up into position during the kick, rather than keeping a stiff back while doing the pendulum, your head stays more level and the overall telegraphy of the kick is greatly reduced. If you want to lean back for tactical reasons, you can do so only more directly by reclining sidewardly rather than by hopping in the air and letting gravity do all the work.

I've been using it in drilling and sparring and it seems to work well. Check out the photos of Bruce Lee doing some of his kicks and look at the position of his trunk in relation to his legs while he is doing his kicks and you'll see what I mean.

 

[TigerWoman]

That's an interesting observation. Although it also has to do with flexibility and balance of body parts not to mention your hip structure in the way. Personally I like to kick high so oppositge leaning is a must. But you also can curl up in that lean if your spine bends sideways. It also depends, of course, on how fast you sidekick. my 2c :asian: TW

 

[Touch Of Death]

Leaning back a little to feel that pull is also somthing I have experimented with; its great for front thrust jabs off the lead leg. The kicks sort of pop out there! And speed is a defenant reduction in telegraphing.
Sean

 

[James Kovacich]

I hate giving this away, but I'm tired of only reading video testimonials and the same political rhetoric that's been around for years...

One of the things I've been developing lately (more like refining), is the abdominal action of my low line kicks. Now there are definitely reasons to lean back (extra reach, keep the head away from attacks, etc.), but by using a side crunch like action to bring the lead hip up into position during the kick, rather than keeping a stiff back while doing the pendulum, your head stays more level and the overall telegraphy of the kick is greatly reduced. If you want to lean back for tactical reasons, you can do so only more directly by reclining sidewardly rather than by hopping in the air and letting gravity do all the work.

I've been using it in drilling and sparring and it seems to work well. Check out the photos of Bruce Lee doing some of his kicks and look at the position of his trunk in relation to his legs while he is doing his kicks and you'll see what I mean.

Leaning back with your foot pointed (about halfway) downward allows you to (side kick) pulling extra thrusting power similar to a back kick. When my Sifu introduced me to it, he lifted me off of the ground and he kicked me lightly. The alignment adds up!

If I use a "stomach crunch" type of side kick, it's more of a stop/intercepting kick/ transitioning to a hand technique.

 

[achilles]

Tigerwoman,

I still think leaning back is important for balance and hip safety, but how you lean back is what I've been playing with. I've been trying to lean back while while slightly curled, accept when I'm definitely going to use a pendulum recovery. Then it is better to keep your weight if as close to the same spot as possible. My point in starting this conversation is that one of the major telegraphs that occurs in JKD kicking is the change in elevation, a kind of hopping while kicking that gives it away. It seems that by reducing the change in elevation, gliding across the floor rather than jumping up, that kick telegraphy should be reduced greatly.

akja,

I agree, alignment is very important and often neglected. Do you ever practice head movement (i.e. slipping) while kicking? I don't make a huge practice of it, but it's got some promise for medium range kicking when punches are flying.

 

[James Kovacich]

akja,

I agree, alignment is very important and often neglected. Do you ever practice head movement (i.e. slipping) while kicking? I don't make a huge practice of it, but it's got some promise for medium range kicking when punches are flying.

Probably not the head movement your talking about. Closer to a boxers head movement. Yours almost sounds difficult as far practicality but I can see it with a stop kicks and the sort.

We don't focus so much with kicks. I was trained and teach to beat not just the streetfighter but also the commercial martial arts that we see today. With that kind of training/philosiphy, a kicker is never going to get in. Thats the way we play. Someone with a similar fighting style could get their kicks in but not from most styles in general.

 

[TigerWoman]

I've been trying to lean back while while slightly curled, accept when I'm definitely going to use a pendulum recovery. Then it is better to keep your weight if as close to the same spot as possible.

For recovery we tuck in close and bring the front kicking foot to back.

My point in starting this conversation is that one of the major telegraphs that occurs in JKD kicking is the change in elevation, a kind of hopping while kicking that gives it away. It seems that by reducing the change in elevation, gliding across the floor rather than jumping up, that kick telegraphy should be reduced greatly.

Oh, you were originally talking about a jump sidekick? That's all speed, I think, not much change or leaning back needed as it isn't a high kick unless you can jump high. We also use a low hop slide in sidekick, also to kick more than once the same leg, low-high. A variation, you could start with a fake sidekick slide and do a high crescent. Don't know if you do those though. I should read more about JKD! Don't know if I helped any. TW

 

[achilles]

Not quite a jump side kick per se, we stay close to the ground. I think we are thinking of almost the same thing though. In JKD, the kicks come mostly off the front leg. The stereotypical footwork involves bringing the back foot to the front to shift balance and gain momentum as the front foot goes to the target. Some arts do this in a two beat rhythm, but in JKD it is very dynamic. This seems very similar to the second "low hop slide in side kick." I agree that it is also a very useful fake. Do you ever try faking it, inducing a low block or scoop and then back fisting the open line? That is one of my favorites against counter fighters who try and scoop out my kick to turn me around.

I like your idea about tucking the leg for recovery. I think that it can do several good things like keeping your leg from being grabbed/scooped as easily, allowing you to throw another kick or using your tucked leg to block a counter kick.