Real Knife Defense

[Em MacIntosh]

I found when I was training knife "defense" that once you have the arm snaked, instead of a disarm you can often opt for a limb destruction. Problem is I always get "cut" (toy knives...) in the abdomen or armpit when trying to snake the knife-arm. I could use more practice in all areas but I feel my biggest problem is keeping precision at top speed.

 

[MJS]

I'm flying blind here, guys. What do you think is real? Anyone had real experience against a knife weilder? Good books for the subject? Real ways to practice? (how eften does a guy do a wide overhand stab?!). I have no idea except that it'll probably be in me before I know for sure he's got it. (I also know running is the best option, we're assuming it's not an option). Thanks, guys.

Great thread topic!:ultracool No, have never had anyone pull a blade on me. Hopefully, that'll never happen. As for reference material on the subject: Jerry Wetzel from Centerline Gym has some great stuff. Of course, there are many Kali/Arnis/FMA systems that have great material as well.

Real ways to train: There are some great training tools out there such as no lie blades and Shocknife both of which offer a bit more reality in your training. During my blade training sessions, in addition to the one thrust or single overhead stab, we drill multiple stabs, thrusts, slashes, etc. Personally, I prefer to gain control first and then attempt a disarm.

Mike

 

[MJS]

After that if you can, get an equalizer of some sort whether
it be a knife, stick, club, firearm, etc. (a better tool is always
a good idea)

Agreed 100%!! If that option is available, its one to take advantage of.

Mike

 

[MJS]

I found when I was training knife "defense" that once you have the arm snaked, instead of a disarm you can often opt for a limb destruction. Problem is I always get "cut" (toy knives...) in the abdomen or armpit when trying to snake the knife-arm. I could use more practice in all areas but I feel my biggest problem is keeping precision at top speed.

We work on a flow drill which consists of the attacker doing two high slashes followed by two lower slashes. This passing motion on the defenders part, is done with the back of the hand/arm. During the pass, we redirect the slash back towards the other person. Doing this, should create some extra space and should prevent some of the cuts you mention. Then again, getting cut is something we need to expect.

Mike

 

[SKB]

When you talk about knives everyones tells you to exspect to get cut. You also need to exspect to LIVE after being cut. I work in a prison and have seen LOTS of people cut and stabbed. One cut does not kill you and after fifteen or so years I have only seen two people die from one stab wound. I have seen alot of people freak out after being cut or stabbed once and this allowed the attacker to cut and stab them more.

 

[jks9199]

When you talk about knives everyones tells you to exspect to get cut. You also need to exspect to LIVE after being cut. I work in a prison and have seen LOTS of people cut and stabbed. One cut does not kill you and after fifteen or so years I have only seen two people die from one stab wound. I have seen alot of people freak out after being cut or stabbed once and this allowed the attacker to cut and stab them more.

Good point.

I can't help but wonder if the difference in expectation is why cops get killed with single bullets while the bad guys take several shots and keep fighting.

It's also very smart for anyone who thinks they may get involved in a knife fight to learn enough first aid & self-administered tactics to deal with the shock and injury.

 

[megat]

hmmmm the first thing u have to do is get over the fear of him having a knife. if u guys freak out than nothing is worth it. and try to observe him , his stance and the way he hold it, u can tell a skilled knife fighter and just some dude holding it from the stance and the way they hold it.

 

[stabpunch]

Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?

Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.

 

[MJS]

Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?

Hmmm...what are the odds of facing someone with the skill of a MMAist? What about a pro boxer? My point is, if you're training for self defense, I would want to be as prepared as possible. Better to have a tech. and not need it, than to need it and not have it! Fact is, we don't know what anyones skill is until the situation starts to unfold. I think the odds of me facing a highly trained MMAist, are on the same level as me facing a FMA master..pretty slim. Again, I feel that its better to prep for the worst case scenario.

Mike

 

[shesulsa]

Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?

Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.

There are punks who carry knives and then there are knife fighters. They are the ones who practice. Those who have deadly intent will come at you fast and with purpose.

A "real" chance? What do you call a "real" chance? Do people like this exist? Yes. Do they live in various locations all over the globe? Yes. Does the average person have a chance in hades of escaping people like this? Mmm ... maybe.

 

[SKB]

I think the real problem is not the highly skilled knife fighter for most people. The threat is the 'bad guy' who has picked up some skills along the way. There is so much information out there you never can be sure what some knows or does not know.

 

[megat]

hmmm yeah with the internet it is possible to get a few move, i think it better to run away. if it is impossible to run away maksure u cover ur arm. a leather jacket is preferable. if u have a weapon use it too, maybe find a stick or sumtin. and when he is out of the way runnnnnn.

 

[stabpunch]

Yes yes, i agree, preparing for the worst. Yet try not to become paranoid at the same time.

I just feel that a knife fighter with deadly intent isn't really going to want to attack me unless he's like out of hanibal rising and i call his woman names. On the other hand a street punk who's picked up a few moves on the internet may want my wallet and seems more realistic.

So just being a nice person should offer a level of defense against knife wielding psycopaths. Yet martial techniques would defend against street punks.

Myself back to the wall i'm a trap and bomb. Secure the knife arm at all costs and learn him why he shouldn't try and stab people or threaten them, because it's just plain ungentlemanly.

Now with the internet and grocerie delivery we should never have to go outside again and thus avoid any chance of interaction and thus forming the best defence... couching potato hidden beer belly

 

[Em MacIntosh]

More great posts! I feel my jacket would come in handy to tie up the arm or get in the way of his vision. You only need an instant, hopefully you make the right "choice" in that instant.

 

[arnisador]

Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?

Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.

I think the danger is that while they may have only picked up one trick from a fellow criminal in jail...if that one trick gets you, that's that. As someone mentioned, you can find web pages with knife attack tutorials. An expert? Unlikely. Some knowledge? It can happen.

Most knife attacks are domestic assaults with kitchen knives, I believe.

 

[SKB]

There are guys in prison who I would call knife fighting experts. The knife, how ever crude, is the predominate weapon in prison. They do pass the knowledge on to each other and you should take them as a real threat. I rather go against some of the MA folks I have seen wield a knife then most of the real killers in prison who have a knife.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

There are guys in prison who I would call knife fighting experts. The knife, how ever crude, is the predominate weapon in prison. They do pass the knowledge on to each other and you should take them as a real threat. I rather go against some of the MA folks I have seen wield a knife then most of the real killers in prison who have a knife.

Graet point.

We do alot of knife stuff in our Jujutsu school,one of our sensei's (who sadly passed on 2 months ago) was very well versed in a few different knife fightin methods, and he felt some of the Prison/Biker stuff was the hardest to defend against.

If your school practices knife defense, where the attacker satnces out and stabs at your gut, leaving the knife out there, yoiu are not training for the reality of how criminal tend to do it, thye recipicate it in and out and usually multiple times. You really have a problem when the alternate hig low, side, up and hit you in differnt spots with their free hand, it's called amping. You have to get off line or jam the knife, or you are in for a hospital stay or much worse.

The more you study kinfe fighting and knifeing, the more you dont want to ever have to face one.

Antoher thing to think about, many prison trained knifers, tie or tape the knife to their hand, so they dont drop it, run their hand up the blade and to make it hard to take away.

Google "Piper system, knife fighting" for some nasty criminal based knife work.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Graet point.

We do alot of knife stuff in our Jujutsu school,one of our sensei's (who sadly passed on 2 months ago) was very well versed in a few different knife fightin methods, and he felt some of the Prison/Biker stuff was the hardest to defend against.

If your school practices knife defense, where the attacker satnces out and stabs at your gut, leaving the knife out there, yoiu are not training for the reality of how criminal tend to do it, thye recipicate it in and out and usually multiple times. You really have a problem when the alternate hig low, side, up and hit you in differnt spots with their free hand, it's called amping. You have to get off line or jam the knife, or you are in for a hospital stay or much worse.

The more you study kinfe fighting and knifeing, the more you dont want to ever have to face one.

Antoher thing to think about, many prison trained knifers, tie or tape the knife to their hand, so they dont drop it, run their hand up the blade and to make it hard to take away.

Google "Piper system, knife fighting" for some nasty criminal based knife work.

Excellent!
Thanks.

 

[arnisador]

he felt some of the Prison/Biker stuff was the hardest to defend against.

If your school practices knife defense, where the attacker satnces out and stabs at your gut, leaving the knife out there, yoiu are not training for the reality of how criminal tend to do it, thye recipicate it in and out and usually multiple times. You really have a problem when the alternate hig low, side, up and hit you in differnt spots with their free hand, it's called amping. You have to get off line or jam the knife, or you are in for a hospital stay or much worse.

The more you study kinfe fighting and knifeing, the more you dont want to ever have to face one.

Antoher thing to think about, many prison trained knifers, tie or tape the knife to their hand, so they dont drop it, run their hand up the blade and to make it hard to take away.

Google "Piper system, knife fighting" for some nasty criminal based knife work.

Great points here, and the Piper system was what I was thinking of when I mentioned that some of this material could be found on the web.

The repeated stabs are so hard to deal with. Getting offline and jamming the knife arm and taking it back into their body are some of the better options in what is a really, really bad situation.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

I should have proofread my post better, I'm glad it made some sense with all the errors.