Ranking Systems
- Thread starter TallAdam85
- Start date
T
Teacher
Guest
Well...I'm sorry you heard some 'decent' things about me. I'll have to work harder so that doesn't happen in the future.
And no...It isn't OK based upon a philosphical background. If you are going to preach ethics.....then you will be held to that standard. All too often what we hear from martial artists isn't what they live. I'm an ***....I admit it.....and I live by the honestly of my words. I don't tell people to call me 'Master' or "Kwang Jang" or some other B.S. title, like "Professor" or "Doctor", and I don't tell them I'm all full of peace and love and fuzzy puppies and butterfiles and that the world is a better place if you just meditate and assume an attitude of "everything is OK and you can do whatever you want while I'll be over here doing whatever I want".....because that is just B.S. It is just one more symptom of the world plaque....irresponsibility. If I have to ruffle a few feathers...shake a few trees ....shudder a few paradigms to their foundations....so be it.
Just because you 'adopt' the 'tenents' of the Moo Duk Kwan (which by the way...most school do not get right or in their full contents) or the 'Areas of Emphasis (same problem for most schools) then you think you are doing the 'Moo Duk Kwan' spirit. What a bunch of malarky! That is just another way of easing a guilty concious or allowing yourself to remain ignorant or worse...just being too lazy to really ponder these things and make up your own mind.
JH
And no...It isn't OK based upon a philosphical background. If you are going to preach ethics.....then you will be held to that standard. All too often what we hear from martial artists isn't what they live. I'm an ***....I admit it.....and I live by the honestly of my words. I don't tell people to call me 'Master' or "Kwang Jang" or some other B.S. title, like "Professor" or "Doctor", and I don't tell them I'm all full of peace and love and fuzzy puppies and butterfiles and that the world is a better place if you just meditate and assume an attitude of "everything is OK and you can do whatever you want while I'll be over here doing whatever I want".....because that is just B.S. It is just one more symptom of the world plaque....irresponsibility. If I have to ruffle a few feathers...shake a few trees ....shudder a few paradigms to their foundations....so be it.
Just because you 'adopt' the 'tenents' of the Moo Duk Kwan (which by the way...most school do not get right or in their full contents) or the 'Areas of Emphasis (same problem for most schools) then you think you are doing the 'Moo Duk Kwan' spirit. What a bunch of malarky! That is just another way of easing a guilty concious or allowing yourself to remain ignorant or worse...just being too lazy to really ponder these things and make up your own mind.
JH
I am not even close to being a peace and love kinda guy ! Puppies and butterflies LOL !! I wish sometimes i could be that way, But in all truth, it kinda sickin's me . I just think there is to much, your not with my fed. style, kwon etc. So ya freakin suck kinda junk going on. Hell, Hwang Kee has changed his history so much i wonder if he lived by his own tenant's. When you look at the old publications and his newer one's, they are very different. To me anyway. By the way, what i had heard was about your martial art's. Not your personality. PEACE, THROUGH SUPERIOR FIRE POWER. MITHIOS
Tang Soo Do is a family of many houses. Through the years many of us have found ourselves in different Orgs., Feds., and other groups of affilition.
From this convo it appears we forgot we practice Tang Soo Do. Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's dream was through the philosophy of Moo Duk Kwan (which now is the different houses of Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do) that we would better this world, and help to bring about peace. Can we stop all this fighting? How can peices of the body fight with another? You don't see an ear fight with a nose do you?
The TKD MDK: this topic has been talked about on many other boards, including www.warrior-scholar.com, extensivly. When the facts are shown, KJN Hwang Kee never gave any blessing for a TKD MDK, or the right to use the MDK name. He was the one who kept the Tang Soo Do name. Though, Moo Duk Kwan, was always his.
These are two seperate issues. Please, fighting is not contructive or in anyway going to help the process of going after the truth.
Tang Soo!!!
M.Tabone
From this convo it appears we forgot we practice Tang Soo Do. Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's dream was through the philosophy of Moo Duk Kwan (which now is the different houses of Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do) that we would better this world, and help to bring about peace. Can we stop all this fighting? How can peices of the body fight with another? You don't see an ear fight with a nose do you?
The TKD MDK: this topic has been talked about on many other boards, including www.warrior-scholar.com, extensivly. When the facts are shown, KJN Hwang Kee never gave any blessing for a TKD MDK, or the right to use the MDK name. He was the one who kept the Tang Soo Do name. Though, Moo Duk Kwan, was always his.
These are two seperate issues. Please, fighting is not contructive or in anyway going to help the process of going after the truth.
Tang Soo!!!
M.Tabone
Sorry Sa Bom Nim, you are a master. A Master of Tang Soo Do. Humility: the understanding of yourself. I don't understand how the use of titles is B.S. The title should not for the person getting it, but for those who are learning from the Kwan Jang/Sa Bom/Kyo Sa ect... They should have the title that they deserve, and have the attitude and conduct of one that has such a rank.
Namaste
M.Tabone
P.S. -- Sir, ever felt Universal white light?
T
Teacher
Guest
See. I knew you weren't done posting.
Well...unfortunately....the title thing has gotten completely out of hand. Just look at some of the titles we have now: Grandmaster, Supreme Grandmaster, Ultimate Grandmaster, Great Grandmaster, Eternal Grandmaster.....jeeeeshhh.
I had this one student who would call me 'Massah'. I had to put a stop to that one immediately. (use your imagination as to why).
I don't care to be called Kwang Jang, Chung Jang or any kind of Jang. I'll begrudgingly accept Sabomnim....but I prefer just 'Teacher' or 'Mr.'. Nothing wrong with that. It isn't fancy....their just being polite. Of course...people still insist on calling me 'Master'. I can't seem to get them to stop. Like you...they say the 'title' is for their benefit....but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow. I don't want sheep....I want peers.
The delimna of most of these 'Masters' I run into is that they don't realize when it's time to retire and allow those that follow to shine. The truest measure of leadership is knowing when your time to step down comes. Otherwise.....you're just being greedy.
So....I'll tell anyone...and I mean that....all these high titles are B.S. Chang Sam Bong was also know as the 'Sloppy Taoist'. Why? Because he was plain, rough, often crude and about half nuts....at least according to the people who ran into him. Funny thing is....those that really listened to him realized the old fuzzy fellow was a bit of genius and actuallly had something to teach....if you could tolerate him long enough to learn it.
JH
Well...unfortunately....the title thing has gotten completely out of hand. Just look at some of the titles we have now: Grandmaster, Supreme Grandmaster, Ultimate Grandmaster, Great Grandmaster, Eternal Grandmaster.....jeeeeshhh.
I had this one student who would call me 'Massah'. I had to put a stop to that one immediately. (use your imagination as to why).
I don't care to be called Kwang Jang, Chung Jang or any kind of Jang. I'll begrudgingly accept Sabomnim....but I prefer just 'Teacher' or 'Mr.'. Nothing wrong with that. It isn't fancy....their just being polite. Of course...people still insist on calling me 'Master'. I can't seem to get them to stop. Like you...they say the 'title' is for their benefit....but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow. I don't want sheep....I want peers.
The delimna of most of these 'Masters' I run into is that they don't realize when it's time to retire and allow those that follow to shine. The truest measure of leadership is knowing when your time to step down comes. Otherwise.....you're just being greedy.
So....I'll tell anyone...and I mean that....all these high titles are B.S. Chang Sam Bong was also know as the 'Sloppy Taoist'. Why? Because he was plain, rough, often crude and about half nuts....at least according to the people who ran into him. Funny thing is....those that really listened to him realized the old fuzzy fellow was a bit of genius and actuallly had something to teach....if you could tolerate him long enough to learn it.
JH
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
I guess you didn't figure it out. Go back and read Mithios Posts.
The history of TSD and TKD has been changed so much (even by one's own opinion, not facts). It is crazy. Most of it is "twisted thruth." Everyone (including Hwang Kee) have their own version on what the history was (and he gave two or three versions himself). If you read all the books, websites, ect they are ALL different.
So, why bother with politics? Just get off it, get on the dojang floor, and train. That is what is important. Not history/politics
The history of TSD and TKD has been changed so much (even by one's own opinion, not facts). It is crazy. Most of it is "twisted thruth." Everyone (including Hwang Kee) have their own version on what the history was (and he gave two or three versions himself). If you read all the books, websites, ect they are ALL different.
So, why bother with politics? Just get off it, get on the dojang floor, and train. That is what is important. Not history/politics
I was wondering. What about the M.D.K.-T.S.D. school's and federation's that still say they are M.D.K. when the style name was changed to Soo Bahk Do. Wouldn't that mean that there is no more M.D.K.-T.S.D. And only M.D.K.-S.B.D. I would think that would be the case. The M.D.K. is only S.B.D. Right ?? I am just looking for your opinion's and info ! So i would appreciate it if ya didn't bite my rear on this one !!!!!!! MITHIOS
M
Ma_Kuiwu
Guest
Ya gotta know how to handle ole JH.
He is just a big ole teddy bear.
lol
He is just a big ole teddy bear.
lol
T
Teacher
Guest
Mithios is correct. There really is no more MDK TSD. ONly SBD.
And to Laurie.....I do train. But the issue isn't one of 'poitics' it is one of 'ethics'. There is a difference. Politics are about rank recognition and who holds leadership. Using the name of someone else's school is about the rightness of copyright infringement and what is the noble thing to do.
Filling people's heads with erroneous information that are not facts is also not about politics...again...it is about ethics and doing the right thing.
The baine of all that don't want to do their intellectual study is to say....'oh...just get on the floor and train. That is what is important'. Well...training physically IS important...but is no more or less important that getting a good education.
JH
And to Laurie.....I do train. But the issue isn't one of 'poitics' it is one of 'ethics'. There is a difference. Politics are about rank recognition and who holds leadership. Using the name of someone else's school is about the rightness of copyright infringement and what is the noble thing to do.
Filling people's heads with erroneous information that are not facts is also not about politics...again...it is about ethics and doing the right thing.
The baine of all that don't want to do their intellectual study is to say....'oh...just get on the floor and train. That is what is important'. Well...training physically IS important...but is no more or less important that getting a good education.
JH
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Mithios,
I hope you don't think I was getting on you. I was agreeing with you
Teacher,
I don't make the rules, I didn't make the history, and I could care less about politics. I don't care who copyrighted what. I'm telling you what I was told. On the same note, I didn't even ask
My point is, once you find a dojang for you, that's all that should matter. Am I right? I'm not going to hate you because you say there isn't any TKD MDK or TSD MDK. Nor will I agree with you. What matters is the TRAINING. Good schools are hard to come by these days. Once I found one, I stuck with it. Not because of the style, history, or politics, but for the SELF DEFENSE they teach.
I'm not trying to piss you off. I'm trying to get you to see my point of view.
I hope you don't think I was getting on you. I was agreeing with you
Teacher,
I don't make the rules, I didn't make the history, and I could care less about politics. I don't care who copyrighted what. I'm telling you what I was told. On the same note, I didn't even ask
My point is, once you find a dojang for you, that's all that should matter. Am I right? I'm not going to hate you because you say there isn't any TKD MDK or TSD MDK. Nor will I agree with you. What matters is the TRAINING. Good schools are hard to come by these days. Once I found one, I stuck with it. Not because of the style, history, or politics, but for the SELF DEFENSE they teach.
I'm not trying to piss you off. I'm trying to get you to see my point of view.
T
Teacher
Guest
Well...I'm not pissed off. It actually takes a lot to piss me off...really. I am strong in my opinions because they are well thought out. Anyone who knows me will admit that is true.
I'm not sure you've made your case though. You said you wanted me to see your point of view, but I'm getting it that you think there is no reason to know the history and teach it....that it isn't important....that only the physical training is important. On that...I would have to disagree...strongly. Nobility cannot be obtained through ignorance....and I feel martial arts should work not only for you physical life...but your intellectual life as well.
JH
I'm not sure you've made your case though. You said you wanted me to see your point of view, but I'm getting it that you think there is no reason to know the history and teach it....that it isn't important....that only the physical training is important. On that...I would have to disagree...strongly. Nobility cannot be obtained through ignorance....and I feel martial arts should work not only for you physical life...but your intellectual life as well.
JH
No, i didnt' think you where getting on to me. Just teacher LOL. I understand what your talking about. In my 24 year's in the martial art's i have seen so much political crap, GRRRRRRR ! It just make's me wan't to throw my black belt's in the closet and walk away. And i did for awhile. Then i just decided to break away from the crap, and i have not looked back since. MITHIOS
I agree with the title thing being out of hand ! I hold a so called master rank. And my student's know not to call me that. But it happen's sometime's. When it happen's, i have the urge to look around to see who there talking to. Then i have to say please don't call me that. I am afraid that if i let people call me that, i will start to believe it my self. I have seen it happen, and it is not pretty !! They start calling there self master.And better yet signing there name's master so and so. Hell, everyone and there moma's kitty cat, is a grandmaster these day's !!!!!!!! MITHIOS
T
Teacher
Guest
OH...the title thing just keeps getting worse. There are several groups running rampant through the country with these 'Ph.D.'s' that you can get through the internet for your 'life experience'. OK...if they'd just be honest about what these actually are...and where they are from...it wouldn't be so bad. But most of the people who have these things don't disclose that info....even when you confront them about 'just exactly what accredited university did you get your doctorate from?'. OH no! Instead...they try to dodge that question entirely...because it isn't an accredited degree and they didn't do a thesis and they didn't defend that thesis...they got it from a papermill based upon an application that THEY submited without verifiable documentation on their purported background....upon which the decision is made to issue them this so called 'Ph.D.' Basically....as long as you pay the 'tuition' ...you get the sheep skin....and without having to actually do anything. OH...but it doesn't stop there. NO...these individuals then got to great pains and lengths to convince YOU that they are 'Doctors'. Now don't get me wrong...anyone who earns a legitimate Ph.D. from an accredited university is entitle to be refered to as Dr. so and so. But the use of that title is usually exclusive to academic or educational arenas (with exceptions being made in areas of research and development). That is to say...if you have a Ph.D. in English Literature and you don't teach at a college somewhere...it isn't common nor appropriate to have some refer to you as a 'Doctor'. But heaven forbid these sad little egos can't get their penance from the public for their possession of their so-called Doctorate. NO...they INSIST that EVERYONE refer to them as DR. So and So and get mad when you question why they require that. They sign all their paperwork and even their emails and web postings as 'DR. Sumkindanut' in an attempt to get you to assume they know what they are talking about. It is a feeble attempt on their part to legitimize their ill concieved thought processes in absence of actual effort on their part. Look...it is simple...a TRUE possessor of a Ph.D. will put "Ph.D." on his business cards...and occasionally on his official correspondences. However, he doesn't sign his name DR. so-n-so and he doesn't Print the word 'DOCTOR' in front of his name. A guy who does that is trying to sell you something....namely....an acceptance of HIM as an authority (usually not even refined to a particular subject...just on everything in general).
I know lots of 'Doctors'. They practice medicine of some type or specialty. I know lots of Ph.D.'s. Some teach in colleges and universities and are referred to as 'Doctor' by their students or other faculty. And I know a few people who have Ph.D.'s who work in the private sector and they DON'T go around asking everyone they meet to refer to them as "DOCTOR".
So...just like these knuckleheads....if a guy insists you refer to him as 'Master' or even more so...'Grand Master'....put one hand on your wallet...and for God's sake...don't drink the Koolaide!
JH
I know lots of 'Doctors'. They practice medicine of some type or specialty. I know lots of Ph.D.'s. Some teach in colleges and universities and are referred to as 'Doctor' by their students or other faculty. And I know a few people who have Ph.D.'s who work in the private sector and they DON'T go around asking everyone they meet to refer to them as "DOCTOR".
So...just like these knuckleheads....if a guy insists you refer to him as 'Master' or even more so...'Grand Master'....put one hand on your wallet...and for God's sake...don't drink the Koolaide!
JH
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
My point exactly
In my short 3 year martial arts career, I seen so much crap, I don't care to see it anymore. I'm there to train. That's it. I love the martial arts, but not to the point of getting involved with that crap. So I totally agree with you on this 
Has the influx of new ranks in TSD strengthened or weakened the art?
Sarah
Senior Master
White
White w Yellow Strip
Yellow
Yellow w Green Strip
Green
Green w Blue Strip
Blue
Blue w Red Strip
Red
Red w Black Strip
Black
etc etc
White w Yellow Strip
Yellow
Yellow w Green Strip
Green
Green w Blue Strip
Blue
Blue w Red Strip
Red
Red w Black Strip
Black
etc etc
