Tim K, is the Gran Prix and the Lumina and the Imapla and the Century and Regal all the same car? Nope, they all have different packageing and marketing, and requirements by the end item customer. Yet, they all are built on the same frame/platform use similar powertrains, (* Yet they are fine tunded to the requirement of the name plate *). So, if a person is looking for a sporty car they get the Gran Prix, is they want comfort they go for the Century.
Yes, I would like to train with GM Bobby Toboada (* And NO THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE SO DO NOT ASSUME SO! *), or one of his instructors. I assume everyone has something to offer and teach me. Yet, from what I have seen on the tapes, I would have to say that I have seen enough differences, to let me make my first comment, which was qualified, just like this one. I have not trained with Gm Bobby Toboada. From what I have seen in his tapes and from his people I have the chance to watch.
I am not discounting the training, I am only stating like I did in the previous post that I think is incorrect of the Modern Arnis Communnity to claim that this was a Modern Arnis event only. There were other arts there. These arts were represented by people that have years of training and teaching. I enjoyed the training with Sifu Peter Vargas. He was nice and friendly. This was never an attack on him or Grand Master Bobby Toboada. I was only trying to state that I think this event had more than Modern Arnis.
Tim K,
I though Tapi-Tapi and hte term and the right on right was around in 1988 maybe 1989, still three years before 1992.
Now, Like I Said before, could GM Bobby Taboada have influenced his decision to push it harder at the camps? This could be true, for I was not in his mind. Yet, again I state that it had been taught at the Michigan camp and before that at seminars in my home town. So, yes influence could have and probably did occur. Just like, I might influenece you or you might enfluence me, yet I think the final decision was GM Remy Presas' and the term and basic drill was around prior to GM Bobby Toboada's major puch here in North America.
So, does this discount GM Bobby Toboada? NO! Does this discount the Toboada Balintawak System? NO! Could the drills be similar since the linage for both them went back to Anciong Bacon, with each of them having other influences as well?
I am confused Tim K. It could be because it is late and I need sleep. On one hand you tell me they are the same meaning the different family trees of Balintawak and yet you claim that GM Bobby Taboada had a major influence on the Tapi-Tapi Drill. Would not Modern Arnis also be a rose by another name from the Balintawak Family then by your arguing?
Can you clarify? Sorry.
Yes Tim you are 100% Correct, I mis-quoted the name in an attempt to reply to you before I left for teaching at a camp. I should not have posted unless I had all my information correct, as I could either remember or verify. As to the rest of the list I would not add in the Atillos. The last I heard, there lineage did not come through Anciong Bacon, it came strait from the Savaadres. As I was not there, and most of the people I know of that might know are either dead or I cannot find them, I will take their comments with a grain of salt. The name Balintawak was not even around as the name of what people were doing in Cebu City until after World War II, and with the death of the Savaadres in the war, it would be hard to have learned Balintawak. Yet is it possible that their family had learned the same techniques as GM Anciong Bacon? Most assuredly.
BTW Tim, did you know that Delfin Lopez was an extended Uncle to Manong Ted Buot? Just to add some information to your knowledge bank. NO disrespect meant to you or anyone, only trying to share another piece of information.
By Taking an informal system and formalizing, how can it be the same? As to the No Solid Curriculm, Manong (GM) Ted Buot does just fine with it. Yes, you have to learn it the old way, one on one and you must feel as well as see the technique and timing.
As to keeping the core, this implies the left something behind. How can it be the same?
As to their art being less Viable. Once again, I have never said these other systems/arts were to be discounted or not taken deriously, or for people to not train in them. All, I am trying to state is that they are different, hence the different names. They are different because as you pointed out they modfied and changed things, yet kept the core. Core implies a central part, not the whole piece. Could their changes be for the better? Obviously, yes, or people would not think so and would not think studying in theses and other arts worthwhile, so once again, I am not looking to create a war between myself and anyone or this art and that art. Which goes back to my first comments, Taboada Balintawak and Pancipanci Eskrima are not Modern Arnis in its' whole by any means. These arts should have been given equal billing, by calling the event Filipnio Martial Arts Symposium, versus the one and only first Modern Arnis Symposium. These other people should be given their credit as well.
I would love to make the comparison. And I plan on making the comparison, when an event lines up with location and timing for me at work. I have played with some guys who have trained in Go Lineage, no this was not serious play nor was it long. I saw the similarities, and the differences. Could this be the errors of these two students, (* Myself and the other *)? Yes it could. I have an open mind.
). That's all, folks.
