Quick Draw

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you train your quick draw as

method 1 - pull the gun in front of your chest and then shot.

or as method 2 - shot the moment that your gun is out of the holster next to your leg?

 

[CB Jones]

Do you train your quick draw as

method 1 - pull the gun in front of your chest and then shot.

or as method 2 - shot the moment that your gun is out of the holster next to your leg?

Both.

In Close Quarter Gunfight good chances you could need to fire from either position.


Also from my chest as I punch out....I'm firing 1-2 rounds. By the time my arms are fully extended, I have already fired 2-3 shots.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Both, but I do not practice a "quick draw" as such. I practice drawing and firing, but speed of the draw is not the issue. A smooth draw and accurate shot placement is.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The quick draw just remind me the major difference between the boxing punch and the CMA Zimen style punch.

The

1. boxing punch starts from the on guard position.
2. Zimen style punch starts from hands next to the legs.

I have always believed that 2 is faster than 1 and less predictable.

 

[ballen0351]

I work both and on a combo of both where I draw and start firing at the hip and keep firing as I'm bringing the weapon up to get on the sites

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The quick draw just remind me the major difference between the boxing punch and the CMA Zimen style punch.

The

1. boxing punch starts from the on guard position.
2. Zimen style punch starts from hands next to the legs.

I have always believed that 2 is faster than 1 and less predictable.

It depends where your hands are to start. If I'm already in a fence or guard, my hands are in position 1, so that's the faster punch. If they are down (I'm surprised, or I'm trying to draw them in from a distance), my hands are closer to 2, so that's faster.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you train your quick draw as

method 1 - pull the gun in front of your chest and then shot.

or as method 2 - shot the moment that your gun is out of the holster next to your leg?

Unfortunately, there are damnably few ranges I have found where draw-and-fire is even allowed. With so little practice opportunity, I only practiced #1, but firing starts from the moment the gun is oriented (like DD said), rather than at full extension. I used to also practice dry-fire (with snap caps) on the draw, still focusing on #1. Since I no longer carry, I don't practice draw much.

 

[Balrog]

It's not who's first to fire that is important. It's who's first to fire accurately. Working on getting the weapon into play and shots on target is my emphasis.

 

[CB Jones]

It's not who's first to fire that is important. It's who's first to fire accurately. Working on getting the weapon into play and shots on target is my emphasis.

Speed is important though. You should be working as fast as you can get most of the shots inside the an 8 inch circle on the chest. If you are getting all your shots in.....push yourself to be faster. Also put emphasis on being smooth while fast and inside 15 yards you shouldn't even need your sights.

Also work on movement while drawing and shooting.

 

[Danny T]

I practice both as well as while moving. Everything is situational.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
The thing is to be consistent and in time you will be quicker.
Your ability to draw may well be at a time you are not completely prepared at that instant. It won't be like at the range where you are completely mentally and physically prepared to draw and put rounds on target.
Practice to be consistent with your draw and presentation in numerous situations.

 

[lklawson]

It's not who's first to fire that is important. It's who's first to fire accurately.

Well, yes but no.

I've often heard "shots that miss don't count" but that's not really true. Few people actually want to get shot and as soon as a potential threat (someone "shooting back" even if they're not connecting) will am-scray.

In civilian self defense, "suppressive fire" is generally considered a bad idea because you're not sure what you're hitting but it still works as suppressive fire.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Danny T]

Yeah suppressive and covering fire tends to make others duck for concealment or cover. But.. tends to have a lot of stray rounds and uses up of ammo.

 

[Balrog]

Yeah suppressive and covering fire tends to make others duck for concealment or cover. But.. tends to have a lot of stray rounds and uses up of ammo.

True. And ammo is expensive, which is why I'd rather put rounds on target.

More bang for the buck, one might say.

 

[Buka]

Not many people will be wearing a hip holster, but those that do will be trained, hopefully, in all aspects of drawing and firing.

Then we come to civilian carry. Accessing your weapon to shoot is going to have a lot of factors involved. The majority of armed civilians are woefully under-trained in everything, but especially accessing their weapon. It seems to be a once in a great while thing at their local range. And if their clothes are different on a different day, which they always are - it's liable to mess up their draw, especially under stress - which is going to be any time they even think about drawing.

 

[lklawson]

Not many people will be wearing a hip holster, but those that do will be trained, hopefully, in all aspects of drawing and firing.

Then we come to civilian carry. Accessing your weapon to shoot is going to have a lot of factors involved. The majority of armed civilians are woefully under-trained in everything, but especially accessing their weapon. It seems to be a once in a great while thing at their local range. And if their clothes are different on a different day, which they always are - it's liable to mess up their draw, especially under stress - which is going to be any time they even think about drawing.

Civilians? You mean like Police?

Just a pet peeve of mine. Cops are Civilians too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Danny T]

Civilians? You mean like Police?

Just a pet peeve of mine. Cops are Civilians too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Every dictionary I have access to defines Civilian as:
-one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
-any person not an active member of the armed forces or of an official force having police power
-a non active military, police, or firefight person
-a person who is not a member of the police, firefighting or armed forces

???

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not many people will be wearing a hip holster,

But if you put your gun in your pocket, that will be similar to wearing a hip holster. The idea is to shot the moment that the gun is out of your pocket.

For non-revolver hand gun, if you have to

- put bullet into the gun chamber, and
- unlock the safety,

it may defeat the purpose of quick draw.

 

[lklawson]

Every dictionary I have access to defines Civilian as:
-one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
-any person not an active member of the armed forces or of an official force having police power
-a non active military, police, or firefight person
-a person who is not a member of the police, firefighting or armed forces

???

Generic definition, not the legal one. And, more particularly, this is a very recent shift in the usage of the term. Traditionally, and legally, the term "Civilian" meant someone not serving in the Military.

"Civilian is a person not serving in military ... Example of a caselaw using the term: Selective Training and Service Act of 1940, 50 U.S.C.A. App., sections 301-318. not only prescribed procedures for the selection, training and service of individual citizens of the United States in the armed forces, but also made provisions for the return to their previous civilian pursuits.[ Hanebuth v. Patton, 115 Colo. 166, 171 (Colo. 1946)]"
Civilian Pursuits Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

civilian
1 a person learned in the civil or Roman law.
2 as an adjective, pertaining to the civil or Roman law.
3 a person not in the armed forces.
Civilians

"Rule 5. Definition of Civilians
Rule 5. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians."
Customary IHL - Rule 5. Definition of Civilians

 

[Danny T]

Generic definition, not the legal one. And, more particularly, this is a very recent shift in the usage of the term. Traditionally, and legally, the term "Civilian" meant someone not serving in the Military.

"Civilian is a person not serving in military ... Example of a caselaw using the term: Selective Training and Service Act of 1940, 50 U.S.C.A. App., sections 301-318. not only prescribed procedures for the selection, training and service of individual citizens of the United States in the armed forces, but also made provisions for the return to their previous civilian pursuits.[ Hanebuth v. Patton, 115 Colo. 166, 171 (Colo. 1946)]"
Civilian Pursuits Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

civilian
1 a person learned in the civil or Roman law.
2 as an adjective, pertaining to the civil or Roman law.
3 a person not in the armed forces.
Civilians

"Rule 5. Definition of Civilians
Rule 5. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians."
Customary IHL - Rule 5. Definition of Civilians

Am aware of the above.
Gay used to mean happy, exuberant. Now it means something completely different. A gay marriage used to be a happy marriage. Today not the same at all.
Meanings differ as our speech is alive, in flux, & changing.

 

[lklawson]

Am aware of the above.
Gay used to mean happy, exuberant. Now it means something completely different. A gay marriage used to be a happy marriage. Today not the same at all.
Meanings differ as our speech is alive, in flux, & changing.

Then what's the argument? I was accurate when I pointed out that, legally (ref USLegal and IHL), police are, in fact, "civilians," which is why they are often referred to as "the civilian police forces." Why throw out simple dictionary definitions?

Frankly, I dislike it when cops are (inaccurately) described as not civilians because, among other things, it fosters an (equally inaccurate) impression that cops are separate and apart from "regular civilians." They're "regular civilians" too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk