Question about Wing Chun Beginner Lesson

[yak sao]

There is a Wing Tzun school in Royal Oaks, Michigan. I think that's about 120 miles from Akron. It's ran by Anna Weinshrod. Don't let the fact that she's a woman throw you off. I met her a few times over the years and her skills are very solid. I last saw her maybe 9 or 10 years ago, so I know she is much better now than then.
If you can't go to her, she may be willing to come to you. Find a few guys you can depend on and arrange for her to come down and teach you for several hours every few weeks. Then you guys work your butts off between her visits. It's not as good as having a school in your area but it's better than never getting to do WC.
Go to www.ebmas.net and go to the school links.

 

[geezer]

What Yak said. If you really really want to learn a system like WC/WT/VT that isn't taught at every McDojo in town, this is what you have to do. Find an instructor who has what you want, get together a small group and pool your resources to bring that instructor to you, ...or travel to work with them. Then, train like hell among yourselves until the next session with your instructor. Heck we brought my first sifu over two or three times a year for a dozen years in a row from Hong Kong!!! Now we bring a guy in from nearby.... that would be Texas, maybe a thousand miles away. Point is, if you want it, you'll do it.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Sorry to double post, I couldn't find an EDIT button. Even though I'm still not sure if I like that Sifu near me, I'm sooooo thankful that I don't have this guy:

According to what he tells observers in this video, he trained directly with Yip Man for $10,000 per month and apparently part of his WC "training" was Yip Man making him do 100 bare knuckle push-ups on a marble floor everyday. Whaaaaaaaaaat. Yeah I'm sure that happened. I don't even see how doing that would have any benefit to your training if this is NOT supposed to be a system based on strength. My would-be Sifu definitely looks a lot better to me now since I don't see videos of him spewing that kind of BS like the dude in the link above lol.

Nick, what's wrong with this guy? Maybe he trained with Yipman and paid $10,000 a month. How much is a HK dollar compared to a US dollar? Might only be worth a few cents. So it's possible.

Also, a lot of Wing Chun schools make their students do push ups, lots of them, just like demonstrated. My students do push ups on a concrete floor. It helps build upper body strength so the students can hold up their arms to do hours of chi sau. Plus, working with the butterfly swords and long pole requires a lot of strength just to hold them up for hours of training. You may think this guy is bs, but he's doing the same as any Wing Chun school should do to produce good Wing Chun fighters.

 

[Eric_H]

Nick,

Yip Man taught people what they needed, not systemic knowledge, thats partially why there's such a variance in his students today. If this guy says Yip Man had him do pushups, I don't doubt it. Chris Chan developed dynamic tension training based on Yip Man telling him he was a small guy and needed to be stronger.

Don't get too fixed on what Wing Chun "should" be in regards to relaxation. Eventually you get to the point of using soft force to overcome hard, but in the beginning if the balance of Chi and Li isn't there you work on that first. That's traditional kung fu going back forever and a half over pretty much every style.

Remember - traditionally a Sifu is there to improve your life, not someone from which you buy techniques. If he sees a weakness in you (and he actually cares about you) he'll correct it immediately. Thats why with the oldtimers if they say their Sifu was a nice guy or had a lot of nice things to say, you know they didn't learn anything good.

 

[wtxs]

Nick, what's wrong with this guy? Maybe he trained with Yipman and paid $10,000 a month. How much is a HK dollar compared to a US dollar? Might only be worth a few cents. So it's possible.

Also, a lot of Wing Chun schools make their students do push ups, lots of them, just like demonstrated. My students do push ups on a concrete floor. It helps build upper body strength so the students can hold up their arms to do hours of chi sau. Plus, working with the butterfly swords and long pole requires a lot of strength just to hold them up for hours of training. You may think this guy is bs, but he's doing the same as any Wing Chun school should do to produce good Wing Chun fighters.

Zepeda, please don't mind me jumping in ...

The knuckle push-ups with the vertical fist re-enforce your arm structure, i.e. the correct alignment of the fist, wrist, elbow shoulder and you know the rest of the benifits. When not done in the full lock out position, it can develop strong "immovable elbow".

Nick, what is available for us to see is but brief snap shot in time, just keep in mind that ... you CAN'T judge an book by its cover.

 

[Nick Stanovic]

Yeah thanks everyone for clearing some thing up. As I said, I don't know much about WC so I want to learn to try and figure out if what someone is teaching is okay. I had the wrong impression about WC thinking it was really focusing on soft and not about strength training etc as well. It makes sense that strength training helps out but then I am confused that if a really strong guy were to attack my skinny self, it would still be somewhat a test of who is stronger?

Anyways I probably sound like an idiot because I only know what I've read in books. I liked that guy's other videos because he was really straightforward in them saying, if you aren't satisfied with what you learn than don't pay me. It was hard for me to picture an old an (Yip Man) doing 100 push-ups on a marble floor. Of course I have bad stereotypes since just because a guy is old and skinny I guess he can be really strong.

I guess I should stop reading and go see the Sifu in my area and go into training without expectations. I originally thought that I would go to a class, learn/practice basics and techniques, and eventually have a practice partner to do drills to apply what I learned - I didn't realize I would be doing strength training too. I think I'll drive my Sifu nuts with too many questions like I do on the forums but if he can put up with them I won't feel bad.

 

[mook jong man]

You still need to have real world strength for everyday living , picking up heavy bags of groceries etc and for general fitness.
It would only become a problem and not really conducive to Wing Chun training if you were training hardcore like a body builder , that would slow you down quite a bit and cause problems with bringing your Tan Sau in because your humungous pectorals would be in the way.

But I can't see doing bodyweight exercises causing a problem , not only that when you have been training for a while in Wing Chun you can monitor yourself and feel when you are tensing up and using brute strength.

So even if you are a strong individual you just switch it off and relax , and just rely on correctness of technique , proper alingment and structure.

This is assuming that you already have experience and know what the relaxed state should feel like , the main pathway to this is diligent practice of Sil Lum Tao form.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Zepeda, please don't mind me jumping in ...

The knuckle push-ups with the vertical fist re-enforce your arm structure, i.e. the correct alignment of the fist, wrist, elbow shoulder and you know the rest of the benifits. When not done in the full lock out position, it can develop strong "immovable elbow".

Nick, what is available for us to see is but brief snap shot in time, just keep in mind that ... you CAN'T judge an book by its cover.

Thanks for chiming in wtxs. Benefits of doing pushups with a vertical fist is it helps to develop the tricep muscles (the main muscle in executing the Wing Chun punch, very important), the deltoid muscles, and most if not all of the back and shoulder muscles which are important in holding the arms up for hours of chi sau.

To see how important these muscles are, take both hands/arms and hold them straight out in front of you. See how long you can hold them up/out without shaking or dropping them to your side. After about a minute, for the average person, your arm starts to get tired. Plus, you will feel the tiredness start to develop in your deltoid muscles (side under your arms) and back and shoulder muscles. Now imagine using your arms almost straight out in front of you for 30 minutes at a time! With someone pressing, and rolling from slightly up and down, with a light cork screwing pressure coming straight at you and you having to maintain arm positions that does not allow them entry into your center, without using overwhelming muscle power to stop them. Plus these muscles must be used to control your and your opponents arm movements. . . . . with precision.

Most students, when first starting to chi sau, cannot do that for more than a couple minutes at a time. Now imagine 30 minutes to an hour!

That's why these muscles must be developed.

 

[zepedawingchun]

I guess I should stop reading and go see the Sifu in my area and go into training without expectations. I originally thought that I would go to a class, learn/practice basics and techniques, and eventually have a practice partner to do drills to apply what I learned - I didn't realize I would be doing strength training too. I think I'll drive my Sifu nuts with too many questions like I do on the forums but if he can put up with them I won't feel bad.

Is this sifu in Akron Carl Dechiara Sifu? I don't him, but his lineage is Leung Sheung Sifu (Yip Man Sifu’s first student in Hong Kong) by way of Kenneth Chung Sifu.

I don’t know any of these sifus personally, but Kenneth Chung Sifu is well know on the west coast and supposed to be a really good sifu. So this sifu in should be okay.

 

[Nick Stanovic]

Yes I've heard very good things about Kenneth Chung. I read about his style and I really like what I read. I just hope Sifu Carl Dechiara will have the same type of style.

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

To Nick :

- I've seen the video. There's nothing wrong with his basic teaching. He explained the center line and nature of center line punch perfectly.
- He is not a bully ( i don't know who wrote he seems like one due to contact in the application ),bully Sifu looks and "feels" completly different,be advised.
- If you are not ready to receive some 'punishment',whatever that may be,don't train Wing Chun. Wing Chun is a sophisticated weapon,not self-defense. It has been promoted like a 'self-defense' art,for money gain and expension,ofcourse. But it is an attacking art of fighting which aims for critical spots of human body,it's not gentle as it seems.

Hope that helped. Cheerz and respect to ALL Wing Chun schools.

 

[Tomis]

BONG SAU WING ARM
GAN SAU SPLITTING HAND
JUM SAU SINKING BLOCK
JUT SAU JERK HAN
TAN SAU PALM UPBLOCK
PAK SAU SLAP HAND
LAP SAU GRABBING HAND try looking these up via the net and practice them a bit before you walk into your first class. having a little knowledge under your belt will benefit you right away in making your decision. most classes are free the first couple and some i have seen up to a week. good luck in your path.

 

[wtxs]

BONG SAU WING ARM
GAN SAU SPLITTING HAND
JUM SAU SINKING BLOCK
JUT SAU JERK HAN
TAN SAU PALM UPBLOCK
PAK SAU SLAP HAND
LAP SAU GRABBING HAND try looking these up via the net and practice them a bit before you walk into your first class. having a little knowledge under your belt will benefit you right away in making your decision. most classes are free the first couple and some i have seen up to a week. good luck in your path.

Welcome to the forum Tomis, hope to hear more from you.

 

[yak sao]

BONG SAU WING ARM
GAN SAU SPLITTING HAND
JUM SAU SINKING BLOCK
JUT SAU JERK HAN
TAN SAU PALM UPBLOCK
PAK SAU SLAP HAND
LAP SAU GRABBING HAND try looking these up via the net and practice them a bit before you walk into your first class. having a little knowledge under your belt will benefit you right away in making your decision. most classes are free the first couple and some i have seen up to a week. good luck in your path.

Good idea about familiarizing yourself with WC terms and getting an overall picture. I would caution against trying to practice too much before you have an actual class as many lineages do things differently.

 

[Domino]

Class should be relaxed, welcoming and I suppose depends on sifu and lineage also. Some people say seeing is believing but I've heard some say 'feeling is believing'...and I totally agree.
I think it should be delivered unbiased and to let the student make their own decision, its not for everyone.

 

[Tomis]

thank you for the kind greeting.
hopefully I will find time to read / learn from others on this board and continue my path.
life gets in the way sometimes however i have found that even in my darkest moments i can throw a couple combos to practice no matter where i am at and make myself feel better mentally.
Peace to you all.

 

[zepedawingchun]

BONG SAU WING ARM
GAN SAU SPLITTING HAND
JUM SAU SINKING BLOCK
JUT SAU JERK HAN
TAN SAU PALM UPBLOCK
PAK SAU SLAP HAND
LAP SAU GRABBING HAND try looking these up via the net and practice them a bit before you walk into your first class. having a little knowledge under your belt will benefit you right away in making your decision. most classes are free the first couple and some i have seen up to a week. good luck in your path.

For the term Tan Sau, use the definition of dispersing hand. Palm up block just describes what it looks like. But dispersing hand tells you what it is doing.

Also, for lap sau, use not only the term grabbing hand but pulling hand. Tells you what it is doing. In Wing Chun, we don't really grab, and hold. I tell my students to cup (it's like grabbing, but without using the thumb. You hold with the 4 fingers and palm, squeezing with pressure) and pull, to do lap sau.

 

[zepedawingchun]

For Wing Chun term translations, use this link.

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.WingChunGlossary

It has the most common definitions to the terms a majority of Wing Chun people use for the hand positions.